Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The trouble is, is that Sydney really needs another airport and Badgerys Creek is the best location for it. Sydney doesn't need another airport at all, Mascot needs to be opened up after curfew to International operations, as little as five per hour would be enough. Then open up Richmond to civilian flights and expand Williamtown's civilian operations. There is plenty of capacity available in Sydney without spending billions on another airport. We just need to use what we have more efficiently, there would be enough capacity in these three airports to last 50-100 years of growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think this is the instrument affecting RAA registered aircraft. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:OLDASSET::svPath=/download/orders/amend/2005/,svFileName=cao95-32amdt1.pdf There have been exemptions for certain RAA aircraft used in flying training from controlled aerodromes. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Sydney doesn't need another airport at all, Mascot needs to be opened up after curfew to International operations, as little as five per hour would be enough. Then open up Richmond to civilian flights and expand Williamtown's civilian operations. There is plenty of capacity available in Sydney without spending billions on another airport. We just need to use what we have more efficiently, there would be enough capacity in these three airports to last 50-100 years of growth. I would agree if the above was going to happen but the RAAF will not give up their bases and I doubt very much they will allow expansion of the currrent Willytown use by civilians. Also curfews are a political hot potato as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhysmcc Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Brisbane will, be able to take international flights from Sydney after the second runway is completed but that is about 10 years away from completion. 2020 (5 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 2020 (5 years) Really ? I thought it was going to take 5 years from now for the reclaimed sand to stabilise before they could lay the tarmac. 5 years is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 It will end up like Paris and London where you have to go by road from one to the other, at times. All that reclaimed land near Hexham could fit any size airport. Blast furnace slag. Great base for an airport. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PommyRick Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I don't see the real problem with maintaining a smaller aerodrome between large commercial airports, it doesn't seem to be an issue in London or the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think this is the instrument affecting RAA registered aircraft.http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:OLDASSET::svPath=/download/orders/amend/2005/,svFileName=cao95-32amdt1.pdf There have been exemptions for certain RAA aircraft used in flying training from controlled aerodromes. Kaz Kaz, the document quoted is correct but is weight shift microlights and powered parachutes, 95.32 , the 3 axis come under 95.55. Exemption from provisions of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 — certain ultralight aeroplanes 1 Application 1.1 This Order applies to a single-place or 2-place aeroplane that: (a) is not a weight shift controlled aeroplane or a powered parachute; and (b) has a single engine and a single propeller; Single seat home built is 95.10 1 Application 1.1 This section applies to a privately built single place aeroplane in relation to which the following requirements are satisfied: (a) the aeroplane is registered with the RAA; © the aeroplane has a take-off weight of not more than 300 kilograms; (d) if the aeroplane first became registered with the RAA on or after 1 March 1990: (i) the aeroplane has a wing loading not greater than 30 kilograms per square metre at maximum all-up weight; and (ii) if the aeroplane is owned by a person who is not the builder, or 1 of the builders, of the aeroplane, there is a certificate from the RAA in force in relation to the aeroplane that certifies that the aeroplane meets the requirements set out in the RAA Technical Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhysmcc Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Really ? I thought it was going to take 5 years from now for the reclaimed sand to stabilise before they could lay the tarmac. 5 years is great. 4 years to do the stabilisation (starting in 2014), construction is due to start in 2018 for 2020 "opening". BNE Fact sheet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I would agree if the above was going to happen but the RAAF will not give up their bases and I doubt very much they will allow expansion of the currrent Willytown use by civilians.Also curfews are a political hot potato as well. All it takes is someone with the political will, at present all we have is sycophants on both sides of the chamber! The RAAF is an arm of the Government, if they are told to move, they will have to move. Training units could be moved to Nowra, with the operational units being sent North to Scherger, Tindal and Curtin. Someone just needs to make it happen, it is the simple, inexpensive and immediate solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 All it takes is someone with the political will, at present all we have is sycophants on both sides of the chamber! The RAAF is an arm of the Government, if they are told to move, they will have to move. Training units could be moved to Nowra, with the operational units being sent North to Scherger, Tindal and Curtin. Someone just needs to make it happen, it is the simple, inexpensive and immediate solution! It will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhysmcc Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 ...the operational units being sent North to Scherger, Tindal and Curtin.. Who wants to live in these remote places though, Amberley or Townsville may be better ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The base commander is firmly entrenched in Port Stephens. He has expressed his views on being moved. wasn't pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAFA Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Major upgrade of Willy is about to start in preparation for the JSF. Upgrade includes RWY lengthing and new TWR, so the RAAF isn't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 It will never happen. Like I said it needs the political will, not the sycophants we presently have! The base commander is firmly entrenched in Port Stephens. He has expressed his views on being moved. wasn't pretty. Not sure how that should even enter into it, base commanders come and go. Who wants to live in these remote places though, Amberley or Townsville may be better ideas. Both would be better options than the present set up. It doesn't make any sense (to me anyway) to have the strike fighters located near Sydney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAFA Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Have a read (Australian Aviation) of what the CAF said to today (at the C27J arrival)regarding Richmond (post Herc). In around 10 years it could be a viable option as a GA airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There was talk about RAAF Base Richmond being turned into a civilian field back when I joined the RAAF in 1998. That was soon knocked on the head so here we are nearly 20 years later and it is still knocked on the head. Amberley will be getting the Spartans in 2017 but until then, they will be staying in Richmond. The Hercs will also be staying in Richmond. The reason we have fighters at Willytown is because they can train in fighter combat out to sea and also play with the Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 They could also do that from Nowra. We have 3 military airports within 80nm of Sydney (all under utilised), yet our civilian airport is at capacity due to political restraints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 If it was joint civil/military and some common sense reforms with the curfews at Sydney that were written when operating 7xx-1/200 series aircraft wouldn't it at least remove some pressure for the time being? Also I'm sure there are folk on the North Coast that would love to be able to fly out of Willy. Joint user aerodromes work in QLD/NT, unsure why it wouldn't work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Sydney doesn't need another airport at all, Mascot needs to be opened up after curfew to International operations, as little as five per hour would be enough. Then open up Richmond to civilian flights and expand Williamtown's civilian operations. There is plenty of capacity available in Sydney without spending billions on another airport. We just need to use what we have more efficiently, there would be enough capacity in these three airports to last 50-100 years of growth. Go one step further...as I understand it RAAF Richmond is home to the RAAF Hercs and in the future the mini Hercs the Alenia C-27J Spartan Aircraft. Why do the RAAF need to be at Richmond....To be honest those aircraft could just as easily be at Williamstown or Amberley, or, hell what's a few Tax payer $ anyway build a new base just over the GDRange and help rural NSW.... Main Runway is 2km long but looks as though it could easily be extended to 3kms and there is plenty of space to put in one or two cross strips which would align to the main 2 runways at Mascot if needed. Its not that I think Richmond would be better than Badgerys creek, but rather I agree with Howard that we don't need 3 major airports when 2 would do just fine and Bankstown can stay just as it is. Alternately if they want to have something close to the major M motorways Schofields seems to have plenty of land on it (circa 2.7kms x 2kms ) but it looks to me like there might be lots of NIMBY's by virtue of the large amount of houses around which Richmond would have less of by virtue of the larger open areas around it.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Go one step further...as I understand it RAAF Richmond is home to the RAAF Hercs and in the future the mini Hercs the Alenia C-27J Spartan Aircraft.Why do the RAAF need to be at Richmond....To be honest those aircraft could just as easily be at Williamstown or Amberley, or, hell what's a few Tax payer $ anyway build a new base just over the GDRange and help rural NSW.... Main Runway is 2km long but looks as though it could easily be extended to 3kms and there is plenty of space to put in one or two cross strips which would align to the main 2 runways at Mascot if needed. Its not that I think Richmond would be better than Badgerys creek, but rather I agree with Howard that we don't need 3 major airports when 2 would do just fine and Bankstown can stay just as it is. Alternately if they want to have something close to the major M motorways Schofields seems to have plenty of land on it (circa 2.7kms x 2kms ) but it looks to me like there might be lots of NIMBY's by virtue of the large amount of houses around which Richmond would have less of by virtue of the larger open areas around it.... Andy 35 sqn with their Spartan aircraft are only staying at Richmond until their new facility is built at Amberley. They are due to move in 2017 to Amberley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 35 sqn with their Spartan aircraft are only staying at Richmond until their new facility is built at Amberley. They are due to move in 2017 to Amberley. Makes more sense than Richmond given that the majority of who and what they lift is to the north......The only problem is that if you put all our RAAF aircraft into one or two mega bases then is that the same as putting all your eggs into one basket........ that said there are many RAAF bases that are basket cases....Point Cook and RAAF Laverton are effectively mothballed bar training, same as Wagga..... Edinburgh in SA has the maritime fleet that presumably focus almost exclusively to the north......Should they be at Tindal? probably? The Spartans probably truth be told need to be up at Townsville not at Amberley.... I guess RAAF bases are 100 year+ assets, once established they are not likely to be ever moved despite the threats and perceived locations of threats substantially changing..... Take Edinburgh as an example, the P3C Orion and the to come 737 based maritime aircraft are pretty handy at eating up miles, but Edinburgh to Darwin, before you even start doing anything is about 4hrs, or 8 hours return....... if you need max time over target and need to be there RFN then instead of one aircraft you have to task 2, one to go straight there and the other to top up in Darwin or closest alternate and then relieve Aircraft #1 and in any event cant be there for at least 4hrs more than if the aircraft was homed closer to its ultimate area of operations. If you have to add 8hrs flying time to every operation then obviously your timed maintenance events occur faster than they otherwise would and lastly in the transit phase you have a whole aircraft full of specialists sitting on their ar$e doing nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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