Can't turn, Can't climb, Can't run: F35 problems

[red750]

The two F35's attending Avalon have arrived in Brisbane.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Looking forward to Avalon. Unfortunately it looks like the weather may be better Saturday than Sunday, and we fly in half way through Saturday.

 

 

[yampy]

The first two RAAF F35's arrived at Amberley on Monday afternoon .

 

I was at the RIAT at RAF Fairford in the U.K. , where there were 6 F35's displayed . According to sources there , each F35 required 14 air to air refuelling top ups to make the non stop flight across the North Atlantic . I wonder how many tops ups the Aussies ones had for their Pacific crossing ?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

This labor bloke grilling the RAAF about the F35 and Australia not getting a discount

 

 

 

[willedoo]

I know there's not many helmet nerds on this forum, but this lot have developed a 3D model of the F-35 helmet. Scrolling through the photos gives a fairly accurate look at all angle views of the helmet. One photo is a rotating 360 degree view.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

3d model helmet f 35 lm

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

ugly as...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

does the helmet still break the neck of the pilot during ejection?

 

 

[willedoo]

does the helmet still break the neck of the pilot during ejection?

Yes, FT, this one does if you weigh less than about 65kg.. So far, there's only one male pilot who has had to be re-assigned. The only female pilot is still flying, so she must be over that weight limit.

 

The problem with the lighter pilots is that it allows the seat to rotate too far forward at the point where the main chute is deployed. The higher amount of snapback risks breaking the neck. Martin Baker has come up with a three point fix, but I think it is still in the development/test stage.

 

First up is a panel behind the head, sewn between the parachute risers to limit the backward travel of the head. The next involves the addition of a computerised setting to compensate for body weight. I think it provides a longer delay for chute deployment for the lighter weight pilot, allowing more time for the seat to rotate rearwards. Not sure how that pans out with a zero/zero ejection. The third fix is to develop a lighter weight helmet. Good luck with that one.

 

It's an increasing problem these days. Building modern systems into the helmets increases the neck loading but our necks are no stronger. Even in times past, a helmet with night vision or target acquisition gear might have a safe maximum ejection speed of 100 knots less than the clean helmet equivalent.

 

Even with a clean helmet, the weight and design can have a big bearing on things. As an example, the Russian ZSh-7 helmet can eject safely at 100 - 150 knots faster than the American HGU-55P maximum.

 

I'd guess in the future, they'll come up with better systems to minimise the risk.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[johnm]

can someone summarise the $ numbers for this plane (rubbery numbers below)

 

roughly - $ 17,200,000,000 (17.2 $b) purchase cost - divided by say $ 95,000,000 / plane = 180 planes ?

 

may be each plane flys say 150 hours per year @ $ 40,000 / annum = $ 1,080,000,000 (1.08 $b) ?

 

seems like a bargain

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The F-35’s development program will wrap up one year late in May 2018 and require $1.7 billion more than planned, according to a new report from the Government Accountability Office.

 

A full-year delay poses a risk to the U.S. Navy’s timeline to declare initial operating capability (IOC) on its F-35C carrier variant and the program’s full-rate production decision planned for April 2019, the government watchdog wrote in an April report. GAO urged the Pentagon to finish development before making “significant new investments” in the aircraft.

 

GAO Warns F-35 Will See $1.7B Overrun, One-Year Slip

 

 

[mnewbery]

Einstein warned, "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Source: Wikipedia

 

 

[willedoo]

Too true, the reason why? Well WW111 will be nucular which will pretty much wipe out society as we know it leaving those that may survive only to be back where it all started, using "stick & stones" -:)

Maybe the Doomsday Preppers aren't crazy after all.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

F-35 fighter wing grounded after pilots report problems with the oxygen system

 

image: https://static.businessinsider.com/image/584eb4d6ca7f0c1e058b4e75-1200/image.jpg

 

Samuel King, DVIDS

 

US Air Force officials cancelled F-35 flights on Friday at Luke Air Force Base after over a month of pilots reporting that the plane caused them to suffer from hypoxia-like symptoms from a lack of oxygen.

 

Pilots flying the world’s most expensive weapons system apparently found themselves running short of air, though the Air Force said in all cases, the plane’s backup system engaged and no lives or planes were lost.

 

“In order to synchronise operations and maintenance efforts toward safe flying operations we have cancelled local F-35A flying. The Air Force takes these physiological incidents seriously, and our focus is on the safety and well-being of our pilots,” said Brig. Gen. Brook Leonard, 56th Fighter Wing commander in the statement to Business Insider. “We are taking the necessary steps to find the root cause of these incidents.”

 

Read more at F-35 fighter wing grounded after pilots report problems with the oxygen system

 

 

[willedoo]

Thanks, FT. Always interesting reading about the ins and outs of the F-35.

 

From a technical point of view, it would be nice to read sometime in the future what the problem was and how it was fixed. Unfortunately, anytime after now, it's yesterday's news and always hard to find a follow up to it later on. I've never been a fan of the F-35, but it's sad to see the standard of journalism these days. Take this article for instance. It should be wholly about the hypoxia problem they are having. Any aircraft development is a process of combining parts into a system. Those systems are then combined to create the aircraft as close to design as possible. Often a problem like this can be tracked down to a contractor supplied component, either faulty design or just a bad batch. It usually has nothing to do with the overall design of the aircraft.

 

But sadly the media will report on something like this and add references to other problems with the aircraft ( the bad view) and comments from people who think the whole deal is wonderful ( the good view). Low standard journalists often try to dramatize what most likely is just a bad batch of reducer valves or something similar. I realize they have very little information at this stage and need to make their articles attention grabbing, but if it's a problem with the oxygen system, why can't they just stick to the script and talk about that. Oxygen systems aren't rocket science; they're just a bunch of combined parts and all they need to do is track down the Gremlin involved. It's got nothing to do with any major design issues with the aircraft.

 

Well, that's my two bob's worth.

 

Cheers. Willie.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I try to trim the articles to the minimum as usually anything after the 3 paragraph is filler

 

 

[willedoo]

I think you're right there, FT.

 

Looking at other news reports, there's not too much detail other than the groundings. It sounds like the OBOGS has had a problem and the seat emergency cylinder has had to be used. It must be a definite problem going on if multiple pilots have had the same issue.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Lockheed Martin Test Pilot Billie Flynn just performed his first F-35A Flight Demo At Paris Air Show. Did he “crush years of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable of doing” as promised?

 

Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly impossible.

 

The performance included low speed, high angle of attack maneuvers, tight turning, numerous rolls and maximum performance climbs that would silence the critics who said the F-35 could not dogfight and “crush years of misinformation about what this aircraft is capable of doing“.

 

While the F-35’s advanced sensor and integration avionics are designed to win the fight long before the “merge” of aerial combat into visual dogfighting range, this demonstration aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois, MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely adversaries.

 

At the 2:00 mark in the video test pilot Flynn positions the F-35A at show left and performs a high-alpha, ultra low speed pass, standing the Lightning II on her tail and dancing across the Paris sky as the aircraft’s twinkle-toed elevators maintain stable flight on a boiling cushion of thrust from her growling Pratt & Whitney F135 engine. It is a spectacular sight. Enough to silence the skeptics? Hard to say. Most probably not enough, considered what people are used to see when a 4th Gen. aircraft or the F-22 are able to do during an airshow routine.

 

Returning to lower altirude in the demonstration box, Flynn performs a maximum performance, high-G turn with afterburner similar to what we’ve seen with many other demos. This version of the flight demonstration does not feature the open weapon bay doors as with the F-22 demo we’ve seen many times. One of the F-35A demo routines does include a pass with the weapons bay doors opened.

 

 

 

 

Honestly speaking the new PAS 2017 routine seems to be more dynamic than expected. But in terms of instantaneous and sustained turn rates the F-35 does not seem to match the performance of the famous super-maneuverable Sukhois, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen or Rafale (to name but few).

 

Still, the unique features of the JSF are its stealth design, sensor fusion capabilities and unmatched SA (Situational Awareness): that is to say all the ingredients for success in modern air-to-ground operations. Comparing the F-35 to an F-22, Typhoon or even F/A-18 in terms of energy-maneuverability is probably wrong and misleading.

 

So, let us know what are you thoughts after watching this demo:

 

a) do you think it’s more than enough considered that the aircraft will probably never be engaged in a Within Visual Range dogfight?

 

b) it’s rather disappointing because super-maneuverability remains a key to succeed in modern scenarios?

 

You judge.

 

 

[kgwilson]

All very ho hum really. Hard to tell against a clear sky though. The first 4 paragraphs of the review seem like they were to placate Lockheed Martin and the rest fairly non committal. I don't like either of the options he poses but if I had to choose I'd go for option b)

 

 

[Birdseye]

Presumably he didn't have to use the aircraft's oxygen system during the display?

 

 

[Sloper]

Goodaye all

 

l think the aircraft the F35 was ment to replace will be replacing it.

 

How many super hornets could we have purchased for the same cost?

 

Who is our threat and l am sure the Hornets would outclass anyone in our region?

 

Huge waste of our money.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[willedoo]

Set against a brilliant French sky with puffy cumulus clouds Lockheed Martin’s star test pilot Billie Flynn thrilled the crowd at Le Bourget Airport outside Paris, France today as he wheeled and tumbled his F-35A Lightning II through an aerobatic demonstration some critics claimed was nearly impossible.

this demonstration aimed to show the controversial Joint Strike Fighter can hold its own in a knife-fight with the Sukhois, MiGs, Chengdus, Shenyangs and other likely adversaries.

Propaganda or just delusional journalism - hard to tell. Possibly I'm missing something. It did some loops, turns and climbs. Maybe I just need to watch it again.....and again....and again. At the very least it would have been a convenient time for the crowd to duck off for a hamburger.

 

 

[Birdseye]

Huge waste of our money.

I think the correct phrase Bruce would be "Obscene waste of our money".

 

 

[fly_tornado]

normally I don't post stuff from the aviationist but its an interesting take, the F35 pilot boasted that that the performance would put to bed the rumours that the F35 can't turn

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Another critique:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxIZ2ioFk5E

 

 

[yampy]

Another critique:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxIZ2ioFk5E

I don't know whether the F35 is any good or not , but what I do know is that some of this footage is not even F35 related . Some of the footage is of the F22 , a completely different aircraft and one that's been successful in USAF service for a number of years now .

Dave