Can't turn, Can't climb, Can't run: F35 problems

[M61A1]

The first initative comes from the attacker. They will decide the enemy's weaknesses and act accordingly and probably NOT in the best interests of the defender.

See above...comes under "really had to".

 

In any case, I'm not defending the aircraft, only time will tell if it works out for us. We always get naysayers every time we get a new type. When we got Blackhawks, they weren't right because they weren't Hueys. There was a huge amount of negativity when we got F111s, then everyone whinged that they were irreplaceable when they were retired.  Some reckon we should have AH64s instead of Tigers, but our Tigers outperformed the AH-64s in their last major exercise.

 

It bothers me that most western military hardware is technically brilliant but is not tolerant of damage, but I don't get to make the decision about what we get.

 

 

[Downunder]

but for some time  now, our defence force has been really risk averse.

Yes, so adverse they can't march in a pre dawn anzac day parade...... too risky ...lol.

 

But never fear, school children and veteran pensioners will fill in for them..

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/no-dawn-service-for-navy-because-too-risky-in-the-dark/10989934

 

Maybe it's time to just put Australia up for sale to the highest bidder, cause sure as hell we're open for all takers.. 

 

 

[red750]

It is already up for sale. Foreign countries are buying us up at a great rate. No need for military force, just attack with a chequebook.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...our defence force has been really risk averse...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/no-dawn-service-for-navy-because-too-risky-in-the-dark/10989934

 

 

[M61A1]

Yes, so adverse they can't march in a pre dawn anzac day parade...... too risky ...lol.

But never fear, school children and veteran pensioners will fill in for them..

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/no-dawn-service-for-navy-because-too-risky-in-the-dark/10989934

 

Maybe it's time to just put Australia up for sale to the highest bidder, cause sure as hell we're open for all takers.. 

That's exactly what I'm talking about, and it's got worse since they adopted the civvy style OH&S, and especially since "equity and diversity". There have been a few reports scathing of defence when someone was injured, usually while doing the wrong thing.

 

They just use their 5 x 5 risk assessment matrix, and rather than cop another blast from the ABC if something goes wrong, rather than offend a minority or risk a minor injury, they just won't do it.

 

From where I sit, it appears defence has become no better than a "special school", employing people because of their gender, race etc, rather than their competence.

 

edit: I just read the whole article, and saw who made the decision. point proved.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It is already up for sale. Foreign countries are buying us up at a great rate. No need for military force, just attack with a chequebook.

Despite recent Chinese investment in our farms, water, power systems and businesses, the Yanks and Brits own far more. 

 

Australia's balance of payments has always relied on foreign investment. 

 

Our economy would go down the gurgler without the continual inflow of foreign money- which is always balanced by the outflow of local equity. 

 

We import more than we export. Our way of life is propped up by selling off the farm, bit by bit.

 

What government would be game to tell us to rein in our lifestyle a bit in order to pay off our debts? Political suicide.

 

 

[Downunder]

I guess the defence theory then relies on the brits and yank willing to fight for THEIR assets....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Yes, so adverse they can't march in a pre dawn anzac day parade...... too risky ...lol.

its more about ex-ADF people finding no market for their skills in the civilian job market and deciding that claiming compo is a lot better than the dole. It only takes a few months for word to get around that someone got a big payout because they tripped over in the dark.

 

 

[M61A1]

its more about ex-ADF people finding no market for their skills in the civilian job market and deciding that claiming compo is a lot better than the dole. It only takes a few months for word to get around that someone got a big payout because they tripped over in the dark.

What it really comes down to is that management doesn’t want to end up in court because they didn’t do everything possible to protect their employees from themselves. 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

its more about ex-ADF people finding no market for their skills in the civilian job market ...

I can never understand the disturbing fact that so many of our service people end up unable to get a job.

 

i would have thought that employers would be attracted by the skills and discipline they pick up in the ADF.

 

 

[M61A1]

I can never understand the disturbing fact that so many of our service people end up unable to get a job.

i would have thought that employers would be attracted by the skills and discipline they pick up in the ADF.

From my perspective as an ex service person there are many who are virtually unemployable outside in the real world. They can usually read instructions and apply them to a degree, as anything that can be left to interpretation will be. They are generally better of where the can just do what they are told and do it with a bottomless bucket of other people’s money. 

 

I know many maintainers, but I would I allow a small handful near my own aircraft. 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

My brother left the RAAF after a long stint and immediately got work around our small home town.

 

He had picked up several trades in the RAAF and applied them to quite a few different fields, including farm management, forestry, machinery maintenance, fencing, and local government. Interestingly, he has no interest in aeroplanes.

 

 

[Litespeed]

From my knowledge of friends, the services pretty much treat personnel as assets to be used,abused and desposed of when faulty. 

 

Not exactly known for a caring attitude to rehabilitation or treatment esp after leaving the service.

 

I doubt the worry of a few claims- which are normally buried under paperwork is the real reason.

 

In practice defence just ignores claims, hides problems and wait for the injured to give up or die.

 

They effectively are a law unto themselves.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Tokyo (CNN)Wreckage from a Japanese F-35 stealth fighter that crashed into the Pacific almost a month ago has been recovered, Japan's defense minister said Tuesday, but the reason for the loss of one of the world's most advanced warplanes remains a mystery.

 

Pieces of the jet's flight recorder and cockpit canopy have been lifted from the ocean floor, Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya told reporters in Tokyo.

 

He described the condition of the flight recorder as "terrible" and said the device's memory part was missing, leaving investigators still wondering how the US-designed jet crashed April 9.

 

The jet and its pilot, Maj. Akinori Hosomi, went missing while on a training mission from Misawa Air Base in northern Japan.

 

Hosomi, a 41-year-old with 3,200 hours of flight experience, was last heard from when he signaled to his squadron mates that he would have to abort the mission before his craft disappeared from radar.

 

alt=A%20Japan%20Coast%20Guard's%20vessel%20and%20US%20military%20plane%20search%20for%20a%20Japanese%20fighter%20jet,%20in%20the%20waters%20off%20Aomori,%20northern%20Japan,%20Wednesday,%20April%2010,%202019.https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190410005054-file-f-35-01-exlarge-169.jpg[/img]

 

A Japan Coast Guard's vessel and US military plane search for a Japanese fighter jet, in the waters off Aomori, northern Japan, Wednesday, April 10, 2019.

 

Pieces of the plane's tail fins were recovered from the sea shortly thereafter, but noting else turned up until May 3, when the US Navy-chartered deep-sea diving support vessel Van Gogh collected a part of the flight recorder, Iwaya said Tuesday.

 

The US-chartered ship was acting on information gleaned by Japan's deep sea research ship Kaimei, which carries a remotely operated submarine and equipment to grab samples from the seabed.

 

Japan's Defense Ministry did not reveal exactly where or at what depth the latest pieces were found. The plane was east of Misawa Air Base over the Pacific when it disappeared.

 

The Defense Ministry said the search for more wreckage would continue and includes a Japanese destroyer as well as chartered commercial salvage ships.

 

alt=A%20Japanese%20F-35A%20arrives%20at%20Misawa%20Air%20Base%20in%20northern%20Japan%20in%202018.https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/181014092846-japan-f-35-misawa-exlarge-169.jpg[/img]

 

A Japanese F-35A arrives at Misawa Air Base in northern Japan in 2018.

 

Japan grounded the other 12 active F-35s in its fleet after the crash. They remain out of action while the investigation continues, the Defense Ministry said.

 

With 147 of the $100-million-plus F-35s on order, Japan intends the planes to be the mainstay of its air forces for decades to come, and officials have said since the crash that their faith in the program has not wavered.

 

The jet that crashed was the first off a Japanese assembly line for the F-35A, one of three variants of the plane. Japan had announced plans before the crash to stop production there in 2022 and import the rest of its fleet from the US.

 

The United States has hundreds of the jets in its fleets and on order, as do a dozen other countries.

 

Those jets continue in operation. US Air Force F-35As, the same type as the Japanese jet that crashed, have since flown combat missions in the Middle East.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Read today that they're going to have to put de-humidifiers in Williamstown to stop the damn things from corroding. Still wondering why Christopher Pyne thinks they're good value for (our) money.

 

 

[derekliston]

I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again. That amount of money for something which in time of war is basically a consumable is obscene. Not sure who or what they are defending us from either, China doesn’t need to invade, they are just buying the place bit by bit!

 

 

[kgwilson]

They might make good artificial reefs. The fish that inhabit them could then claim they live in the most expensive apartments bad money bought.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Read today that they're going to have to put de-humidifiers in Williamstown to stop the damn things from corroding. Still wondering why Christopher Pyne thinks they're good value for (our) money.

To help Australia avoid repeating past mistakes, the RAAF had set up a thorough long-term process process to ensure we got the best future fighter for our money. Several good designs were competing for the contract.

 

John Howard over-ruled them all and handed us this turd. Why?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Perhaps "hoping for his reward", (backhand)

 

Shoos dont tell on me, can't afford the litigation.

 

 

[Downunder]

John Howard over-ruled them all and handed us this turd. Why?

For the same reason it's always been. To kiss the yanks @rse....

 

We seem to constantly try and punch above our economic weight and the results are never pretty......

 

We look down on some countries around us, politically, economically and militarily but sure as hell they are making good and viable long term military purchases and making us look like the fools and US stooges we are.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Heard the Australian guy in charge of testing this thing for procurement on the radio yesterday.  In the past he's called for it to be dropped.

 

Guess what his line is now?  "Australia is too invested in this aircraft to pull out now.  So we should stop discussing its faults in public as that doesn't do any good".

 

In other words, we've bought a lemon that is mission-capable only 50% of the time (and that's for 1 mission; if you want multiple roles in the mission it's only ready 30% of the time), the whole world knows we bought a lemon, but we should stop discussing how much of a lemon it is because potential enemies might take advantage?

 

I call bullsh#t.  What we should have is a thorough and transparent look at the procurement process and why we ended up with a multi-billion dollar white elephant.  Then we should be holding anyone found to be bribed, personally profiting or even insufficiently impartial to account.  Otherwise this will just keep happening - (eg overpriced French submarines at 4+ billion a pop, and overpriced British ships that we don't need anyway.)

 

 

[spenaroo]

I think the word is called diplomacy

America wanted us to buy the jets, so we bought the damn jets.

 

don't think there was much say from the defense community compared to the politicians

 

could be wrong, but thats my perspective on it.

 

 

[derekliston]

Heard the Australian guy in charge of testing this thing for procurement on the radio yesterday.  In the past he's called for it to be dropped.

 

Guess what his line is now?  "Australia is too invested in this aircraft to pull out now.  So we should stop discussing its faults in public as that doesn't do any good".

 

In other words, we've bought a lemon that is mission-capable only 50% of the time (and that's for 1 mission; if you want multiple roles in the mission it's only ready 30% of the time), the whole world knows we bought a lemon, but we should stop discussing how much of a lemon it is because potential enemies might take advantage?

 

I call bullsh#t.  What we should have is a thorough and transparent look at the procurement process and why we ended up with a multi-billion dollar white elephant.  Then we should be holding anyone found to be bribed, personally profiting or even insufficiently impartial to account.  Otherwise this will just keep happening - (eg overpriced French submarines at 4+ billion a pop, and overpriced British ships that we don't need anyway.)

 

This just keeps on happening, helicopters the name of which I can’t recall Seasprites were they?, Tiger helicopters, Wedgetails, Tanker and boom built by Airbus or EADS who have no previous experience when Boeing has been building them for half a century. I believe that, although the F111 was eventually a great machine, it had a lot of problems. Seems to me that Defence procurement have no idea what they are doing with the taxpayers money. I admit that somethings they get right C17 for example!

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875

 

New stealth fighter is dead meat in an air battle

 

by DAVID AXE

 

A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January.

 

“The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.”

 

I have not read the many responses to this post but do need to say this. Nobody wants to dogfight anymore. They all want to fire off their missiles and get the hell out of danger. Be it ASRAAM, AMRAAM or AIM9 - launch it and bugger off.

 

 

[spenaroo]

they said that about the F4, didn't even fit guns to it....