New member

[Phil Perry]

Progress report:Have done 14 hours in Jab 170. Feels comfortable and natural most of the time but my landings are not very smooth. Had a few good ones but not able to replicate them at will.

Seems I am either flaring a bit late = hard on the nose wheel or too early = ballooning. While concentrating intensely on the flare my feet are "going to sleep" according to instructor and I usually run to the right side of centreline. Fortunately the runway is wide enough.

 

I'm guessing the answer is more practice. Stay tuned. Steve

I wouldn't worry too much at this stage Steve,. . .this afternoon an airline pilot friend told me he had landed earlier today at a place called Sleap. . .old WW2 site,. . runway width ? 46 metres. . . . .landed along the left hand edge and made a dog's ear of it. . .Aircraft ? Kifox Mk3. . . . Excuse ? "Arguing with She who must be obeyed, about replacement windows, . . not concentrating. ( Hope you don't have lessons whilst accompanied by partner ? ! ! ) Plenty of time to get it right . . .enjoy.

 

Phil

 

 

[facthunter]

You would think HE wouldn't need reminding "think AEROPLANE" when in one. Nev

 

 

[Ada Elle]

You would think HE wouldn't need reminding "think AEROPLANE" when in one. Nev

I struggle with yoke planes for the first 5 minutes, remembering which control is the steer on the ground one. Never a problem with stick and rudder planes.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

You would think HE wouldn't need reminding "think AEROPLANE" when in one. Nev

Well,. . .at least the bloke had the guts to admit it,. . . . I've known him only a fairly short time, but his Wife,. . . . well,. . . apparently, she can bend steel with her bare words, ( I love that phrase ! ) and she thinks that all aeroplanes have automatic pilot systems ( His words ! ! )

 

I agree though. . . perhaps "Whilst in the process of landing". . .is not the most appropratie time to have a domestic on an unrelated subject ! Phil

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hello ..doc, a belated welcome to the Forum.

 

 

[Traveldoc]

Breaking news (for me anyway).....First solo today!!

 

As predicted by nearly everyone it was just a matter of practice practice practice.

 

Probably the best tip I had was to "try flying 1 foot above the runway and prevent the aircraft from landing". About 15 landings ago everything suddenly seemed to click and no big problems since then.

 

Now looking forward to finishing my RAAus certificate / cross country endorsement and maybe/probably my own aircraft.

 

What do forum members reckon about the Foxbat for use on farm airstrip?

 

 

[Geoff13]

The foxbat is a dream. but if you really want to land slow, Buy a Hanuman . I love my airplane.

 

 

[recflyer]

Breaking news (for me anyway).....First solo today!!As predicted by nearly everyone it was just a matter of practice practice practice.

Probably the best tip I had was to "try flying 1 foot above the runway and prevent the aircraft from landing". About 15 landings ago everything suddenly seemed to click and no big problems since then.

 

Now looking forward to finishing my RAAus certificate / cross country endorsement and maybe/probably my own aircraft.

 

What do forum members reckon about the Foxbat for use on farm airstrip?

That's awesome. Well done!

 

 

[Ada Elle]

I heard on the grapevine that DAMEs get to tax deduct aviation expenses (including flying)....

 

 

[Traveldoc]

The foxbat is a dream. but if you really want to land slow, Buy a Hanuman . I love my airplane.

I am interested to hear more.

My farm is 1600 X 800m but fairly hilly and with plenty of big eucalypt trees. There are only two potential airstrips @ 400m but quite a few more if less distance is needed.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I am interested to hear more.My farm is 1600 X 800m but fairly hilly and with plenty of big eucalypt trees. There are only two potential airstrips @ 400m but quite a few more if less distance is needed.

The bitumen strip on runway 12 at Caboolture is 240 metres.

 

Either of the above aircraft are well capable of taking off and landing within that distance using normal take off and landing procedures.

 

They are both more than capable of taking off and landing in half that strip of bitumen with some STOL training and practice.

 

But remember currency and practice are as important as having done the training in the first place. That is bringing you comfortable into the 100 metre area.

 

Following are the figures from the POH for the Hanuman.

 

4-3 X-AIR Hanuman 912

 

4-3.1 Service ceiling 4500 m ( 14700 ft) (take care of oxygen lack)

 

4-3.2 Take-off distance With flaps position 2 -Run : 80 m (262 ft) -DF15 : 190 m (623 ft)

 

4-3.3 Climb -Best ratio : 4,2 m/s (826 ft/mn) at 95 Km/h (51 kts) (flaps position1) -Best climb : 16 % at 95 Km/h (51 kts) (flaps position1)

 

4-3.4 Speeds

 

VD 220 Km/h (118 kts)

 

VNE 195 Km/h (105 kts)

 

VNO 175 Km/h (94 kts)

 

VC 140 Km/h (75 kts) at 5200 Rpm

 

VC eco 120 Km/h (65 kts)at 4800 Rpm

 

VS 77 Km/h (41 kts) no flaps

 

72 Km/h (39 kts) flaps position1

 

70 Km/h (38 kts) flaps position2

 

63 Km/h (34 kts) flaps position3

 

4-3.5 Engine off -Maxi fineness : 11 at 100 Km/h (54 kts) (flaps position1) -

 

Best glide ratio 2.5 m/s (492 ft/mn) at 100 Km/h (54 kts) (flaps position1)

 

4-3.6 Landing Roll : 70 m (229 ft) DA15 : 180 m (590 ft) 2008, october, 17 4

 

 

[cooperplace]

Gday. New member reporting here. Finally have resources to follow a life-long ambition. Started RAA licence training at Bathurst last week in Jab 170.Have done gliding, paragliding and Careflight helicopter aircrewing in the past. Completed BAK exams years ago but never enough time or $$. Until now.

Thinking about building or purchase of STOL aircraft to fly out of farm at Oberon. Maybe a Zenith or Savannah. I have a few flattish areas about 400 to 500m long. Will that be enough?

 

This looks like it will be a very useful website for my needs. Cheers Steve

when I started learning a lot of people said don't be in too much of a hurry to buy a plane, get your licence, fly for a while, try different types, work out what suits your needs. I think that is very good advice.

 

 

[Geoff13]

when I started learning a lot of people said don't be in too much of a hurry to buy a plane, get your licence, fly for a while, try different types, work out what suits your needs. I think that is very good advice.

I do agree up to a point. My problem was that it didn't matter what I flew I liked it. So rather than spend a ton of money on something flash, I bought an aircraft in the cheaper end of the market. It will allow me to fly when and where I want within reason whilst I get my experience and decide what I would really like to fly. I will admit it has also started me done the thought path of possibly building my own one day and that was never even a consideration before buying the Hanuman.

 

The other bonus of having your own plane is the ability to retain currency. If you are hiring say 1 hour per week and the day you book for rains out it is not so easy to say no probs I can do some inside work today and fly tomorrow.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Yep your needs and wants will probably change dramatically with experience...i would anticipate at first you may want stol slow easy uncomplicated and as your experience grows a d you do more x country you may want more speed to make travel an easier option...

 

Consider this if you buy a purely stol aircraft that cruises at say 80 knots and you seem to have a 10-20 knot head / cross wind every where you fly will you be happy compared to say an aircraft at 120 knots ...will you be cool with taking 1/3rd longer almost every where you go... Some love it some hate it... Some like flyng local , others want to travel long distances...

 

When i bought mine i didnt want retractable gear or constant speed prop, now i wish i had both, because i prefer travel to wierd places over doing laps. At first local for me was cgreat, but it soon becomes monotonous... Mind you i fly a Lot...2 -3 times most weeks .

 

In a perfect world id have a 160 knot RV7 or blackshape prime and a Just Super stol or bushranger. But in this world a 120 knot UL does jsut fine

 

 

[Traveldoc]

Thanks everyone for great advice. Yes, probably not wise to buy an aircraft before basic training is complete.

 

And I need to think some more about where I will fly to.

 

Aircraft type will be governed by runway that I can fit onto the farm at reasonable cost. Unlikely to suit a fast low-wing type.

 

Geoff thanks for that data. The Hanuman might be what ticks the boxes. Worth knowing about.

 

Steve

 

 

[eightyknots]

I am interested to hear more.My farm is 1600 X 800m but fairly hilly and with plenty of big eucalypt trees. There are only two potential airstrips @ 400m but quite a few more if less distance is needed.

Zenith 701 and Savannahs will take off and land in less space than that: there are many forum members who own Savannahs and really love them for a good balanced STOL plane that can cruise at a reasonable speed too.

 

 

[Traveldoc]

About 30 hours logged now. 2.4 hours of solo and 2 exams left to do + precautionary search + steep turns.

 

Vastly more enjoyable flying solo. Feels like I have achieved something.

 

Looking forward to flying my own off my own strip.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

About 30 hours logged now. 2.4 hours of solo and 2 exams left to do + precautionary search + steep turns.Vastly more enjoyable flying solo. Feels like I have achieved something.

Looking forward to flying my own off my own strip.

Hiya Doc,. . . .good to hear you're enjoying the flying,. . .and doing rather well too by the look. . . . We have three Savannahs at our place, and they all get off the deck in nil wind "average" Pommie summer temperatures ( ! ) "Two-Up" in less than a third of our longest runway ( 350 metres 'ish. . ) and most times they use the really short one ( 220m ) with no trouble at all. 2 of these aircraft have VGs and the third the standard fixed slats. I would think in that case, assuming no BGTT ( bloody great tall trees ) at the ends of your 400 metres ! . . . this is of course all assuming thrat your ranch is NOT located at a high elevation, and the Ambient isn't nudging 45 C. . . .

 

The fixed slat version, is owned by a lovely old feller ( gotta be late seventies ) and his Wife,. . they're both skinny runts, and their plane is usually airborne, uphill, around a third of the way up the 2.5 Degree gradient which is 80 metres ! with any wind, these things seem to just lazily "Taxy" into the air in a very short distance. . .very impressive STOL performance.. . . . shame the office is a little narrow for two fat buggers but isn't there always a downside ?. . .

 

Keep us posted. . .be interesting to learn which of your multiple runways you decide to adopt .

 

Phil

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Hi there Trav

 

Welcome

 

As most have already said, heaps of useful help from the enthusiastic masses to be had here. Also a bit of less useful masses as well but sifting through it all ends up being very educational.

 

Nice to see another doc among the crowds.

 

I'm an anaesthetist and did my time as a medical flight crew on the local rescue helicopter way back in the early 1990s when we jammed patients, me and a pilot in a squirrel through to when we got a Bell 412. ( luxury compared to sitting with patients head literally in your lap in the squirrel. ) I gave it away just before we got an Agusta 139. Also did fixed wing retrievals for a local company retrieving from all over the South west pacific. I managed to get a helicopter PPL during all that and got to fly the 412 from the co-pilot seat quite a bit when we were deadlegging it. That was probably the best experience of the lot.

 

Now I fly a Jabiru 430 that I built about 8 years ago. It's a fantastic way to spend your leisure time. The brotherhood of aviators is a wonderful institution and I must say that with the way it has diversified with RAAAus, SAAA, GA etc has brought a wide spectrum of people together that has made it really valuable. I recall a few years back when all those groups shunned and often vilified each other though and it was quite divisive but these days I think we have learned that if we get off the ground, by whatever means, then we are all kindred spirits.

 

Have fun!

 

 

[DrZoos]

Doc definitely check out the Vixxen 32 - aka new foxbat 115kts cruise short take off 230m to clear 50 feet , landing 245m over 50foot obstacle 27kts cruise

 

http://www.foxbat.com.au/a32

 

http://www.foxbat.com.au/a32_dimensions_performance

 

Our club has a foxbat for sale... A22 around $66K i think

 

http://www.foxbat.com.au/a22ls_dimensions_performance

 

There are several nice CH 701 for sale, but be warned the MTOW is very low on some and may hinder 2PAX travel plans to either no luggage or short stints between fuel. a CH 750 would be sweet ...but you would have to build it ... see

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/the-zenith-ch-701-ch-750-and-icp-savannah-vg-xl-and-s-comparison.36408/

 

 

[Traveldoc]

Phil Perry

 

Thanks Phil this is most useful information for me. I appreciate your reply very much.

 

A bit more background: My farm is at ~3900' AMSL in what is considered a "cold" district here in Australia. Snows a few times every year but summers can get warmish = 30 Celsius in mid summer. Did an aerial survey with my CFI few weeks ago and he rejected my possible airstrips due to terrain and prevailing westerly winds. He did find a nice smooth ridge that runs slightly uphill to the East and is 430m long, about 50m of which probably too steep really. Checked later on the ground and it's nice hard packed smooth basaltic soil with close-cropped grass (almost lawn!) There are some BGTTs at the eastern end, actually its a state-owned pine forest. So we are talking one-way strip. Winds usually calm to mild early mornings can get quite strong westerly in afternoons.

 

So here's my take on this:

 

Should be OK for STOL aircraft in good conditions.

 

Cold air and westerly downhill takeoff with 400m to spare and firm lawn surface sounds pretty ideal even at 4000 feet elevation.

 

Hot summers day with strong tailwind I'll avoid flying even though landing will be uphill.

 

If I get caught out in such conditions Ill go and land at Bathurst (about 20 nm) on runway 26 and then plan my next move. Usually the wind drops late afternoon.

 

I will make quite sure of familiarity with new aircraft and short field techniques before doing any of this stuff.

 

Cheers Steve

 

 

[Traveldoc]

Hi there TravWelcome

As most have already said, heaps of useful help from the enthusiastic masses to be had here. Also a bit of less useful masses as well but sifting through it all ends up being very educational.

 

Nice to see another doc among the crowds.

 

I'm an anaesthetist and did my time as a medical flight crew on the local rescue helicopter way back in the early 1990s when we jammed patients, me and a pilot in a squirrel through to when we got a Bell 412. ( luxury compared to sitting with patients head literally in your lap in the squirrel. ) I gave it away just before we got an Agusta 139. Also did fixed wing retrievals for a local company retrieving from all over the South west pacific. I managed to get a helicopter PPL during all that and got to fly the 412 from the co-pilot seat quite a bit when we were deadlegging it. That was probably the best experience of the lot.

 

Now I fly a Jabiru 430 that I built about 8 years ago. It's a fantastic way to spend your leisure time. The brotherhood of aviators is a wonderful institution and I must say that with the way it has diversified with RAAAus, SAAA, GA etc has brought a wide spectrum of people together that has made it really valuable. I recall a few years back when all those groups shunned and often vilified each other though and it was quite divisive but these days I think we have learned that if we get off the ground, by whatever means, then we are all kindred spirits.

 

Have fun!

Gday mate.

 

I'm doing anaesthetics in western Sydney since 1998. Long story but I was doing ICU training, went to Theatres for 3 months airway training and never went back!! ....a true story.

 

CareFlight Sydney 1999 = 200 hours in 412 and BK117. Then "weekend warrior" at Orange in Agusta 119 for a few years until dropkick state premier sold off the helicopter retrieval service to Canadians.

 

Had an unofficial "fly" of the 412 3am on a cold winters morning over the top of Sydney Harbour Bridge. An amazing treasured memory. Of course multi-thousand hour Vietnam vet pilot in RH seat!!

 

I have thought of building a Savannah or Super STOL but time is marching on. Would take me a few years probably and be in mid 60s before I can fly it, and not really any saving either. Want to get some value out of this training.

 

Yes I have found the aviation crowd very pleasant people. But I am still surprised at how old most of them are! :-)

 

Cheers Steve

 

 

[planedriver]

but these days I think we have learned that if we get off the ground, by whatever means, then we are all kindred spirits. !

I went out and bought a Toyota! Not the same altitude. but you reckon it still counts?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I went out and bought a Toyota! Not the same altitude. but you reckon it still counts?

If you can maintain that altitude when have that "Oh What a feeling!" Then I guess sure, why not!

 

I have thought of building a Savannah or Super STOL but time is marching on. Would take me a few years probably and be in mid 60s before I can fly it, and not really any saving either. Want to get some value out of this training.Yes I have found the aviation crowd very pleasant people. But I am still surprised at how old most of them are! :-)

That's the big problem across non-commercial aviation in general. It costs so much these days that unless you are going toward commercial and get something back the young guys are all off doing the many other things that they can for way less price. Its only the old guys who are set up or have at least got the family off their hands who find they can afford it. I think the average age in sport aircraft chapter would be in the upper 50's and maybe even into 60's.

 

You need to take the age thing into account when choosing what to get and when. We have a few older members who have significant illnesses crop up and had to lay down tools for so long that they would have been better spending more money at the beginning and they would have been flying up till they got crook.

 

But - for lack of a crystal ball!

 

 

[Traveldoc]

If you can maintain that altitude when have that "Oh What a feeling!" Then I guess sure, why not!

 

That's the big problem across non-commercial aviation in general. It costs so much these days that unless you are going toward commercial and get something back the young guys are all off doing the many other things that they can for way less price. Its only the old guys who are set up or have at least got the family off their hands who find they can afford it. I think the average age in sport aircraft chapter would be in the upper 50's and maybe even into 60's.

 

You need to take the age thing into account when choosing what to get and when. We have a few older members who have significant illnesses crop up and had to lay down tools for so long that they would have been better spending more money at the beginning and they would have been flying up till they got crook.

 

But - for lack of a crystal ball!

I'm still fairly healthy at 58 but free time is not plentiful. Hospitals 4 days + on-call. Cattle farm 3 days. 2 hours flying each Fri and Sat. Cows are feeling a bit neglected.

Having an aircraft at the farm will save 3 hours a week commuting. -Well that's one of my arguments anyway.

 

S