RPL vs PPL

[Parkway]

Hey all, first time poster.

 

I just wanted to start up a conversation about the pros and cons of the new RPL (not RA-aus) versus the PPL.

 

I am thinking of doing the RPL mainly because of cost, but if

 

I'm also going to do cross country, radio, and

 

Passenger endorsements, is it creeping towards being the same cost as a PPL? I would ask at a flight school but feel like I might get a slightly biased opinion haha. I have no interest in flying anything over 1500kg so the RPL suits me in that respect.

 

I have done about 6 hours towards my PPL already too, which wouldn't count towards the RPL

 

 

[ayavner]

Hi Parkway - welcome! Lots of threads on here already on this subject. I don't think its really RPL vs PPL, as one is just a continuation of the other. The 6 hours you have done will absolutely count towards the RPL. If you get the RPL, i believe that already includes the radio and ability to carry PAX, just in a limited radius. Once you start taking Nav lessons, yes the cost will start creeping up - but not sure there is a separate nav endo for the RPL - you need the PPL if you are going to go farther. so if you are happy with 1500kg and a limited radius, then just stick with the RPL. Once you want to stretch your legs a bit, then you can start working towards the PPL.

 

Aeronautical experience is aeronautical experience - as long as its logged and with an instructor, and right class of plane, it will count towards your total required hours.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Yes there is a Nav endorsement for the RPL. I am not sure why, as you might as well do the PPL .

 

The RPL is handy to convert to from a RAA cert as you don't have to do the exams - again I don't know why but I have long since given up trying to make sence of the actions CASA, they are an embarrassment.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Yes there is a Nav endorsement for the RPL. I am not sure why, as you might as well do the PPL .The RPL is handy to convert to from a RAA cert as you don't have to do the exams - again I don't know why but I have long since given up trying to make sence of the actions CASA, they are an embarrassment.

I haven't kept up with all the details of the RPL. When I was more actively involved with the aeroclub, the SAAA Chapter and students I was more up on things.

 

But I get the impression that CASA have called it a Recreational XYZ to purposely to muddy the waters. ( conspiracy theorist coming to the fore)

 

When they first talked about changing the name from GPFT ( formerly known as the restricted private licence) to RPL many people got completely confused and the confusion continues to reign supreme. I get people asking me what they should do and using the recreational terms interchangeably and by the end of trying to explain it they are completely bamboozled.

 

Initially casa said they were basically saying it was just the GFPT by another name. Since then it seems to have morphed into a quasi-PPL.

 

I was under the impression you could not go far away from your starting field on an RPL except as part of your training - ie as a training nav. Flights around your starting field were when ever you wanted but travelling further was restricted.

 

Is that correct?

 

 

[Kununurra]

Hi Parkway

 

As for pros and cons the way I see it and did it was, the RAA CERT to RPL once you have RADIO X country 2hrs under the hood on instruments a flight review then you can get signed off for your RPL if you have a school that offers this.

 

You still need further endorsements for controlled airspace etc. but that can come after you have done some time flying with the RPL if you wish.

 

Benefits are the majority of your training is done at a reduced rate whilst doing your RAA cert including the cross country component.

 

Everyone is different so there is no real yard stick to say how many hours it will take you to achieve any or all of this.

 

If you only wish to fly within Australia and carry no more than 3 pax + Pilot ( requires medical) then the RPL may be a good option after you complete your RAA cert.

 

If you think you may wish to venture off into the aviation world and begin a career then doing the PPL from the start would be worth thinking about.

 

Seems like you have lots to think about whatever you choose enjoy and safe flying cheers

 

 

[Kununurra]

I was under the impression you could not go far away from your starting field on an RPL except as part of your training - ie as a training nav. Flights around your starting field were when ever you wanted but travelling further was restricted.

 

Is that correct?

 

Hi Frank to answer your question no thats not correct, if you have a Xcountry endorsement it carries over to the RPL and you can fly as far away as you wish so long as it is within Australia

 

Cheers

 

 

[Icarus]

I was under the impression you could not go far away from your starting field on an RPL except as part of your training - ie as a training nav. Flights around your starting field were when ever you wanted but travelling further was restricted.Is that correct?

Hi Frank to answer your question no thats not correct, if you have a Xcountry endorsement it carries over to the RPL and you can fly as far away as you wish so long as it is within Australia

 

Cheers

 

Yep ,fly away after 5 hours nav training ,also controlled airspace! more pax, above 10000 ft with medical! who needs PPL

 

all your questions should be answered in this 4 page doc

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_rpl_fs.pdf

 

 

[Fishla]

I'm 13 hours into a RA-Aus course myself.

 

You want to do your training on a RA-Aus registered aircraft (24-XXXX) as these are cheaper to run and therefore hire.

 

You also want to do your training from an airfield that you don't need to wait for permission to taxi, etc. You definitely don't want to have to fly to a training area 10 minutes away or have to pay landing fees, etc.

 

You'll more likely find RA-Aus school that can offer this.

 

You then learn to fly, get radio endorsement, get passenger endorsement and conduct navigation exercises all in a RA-Aus aircraft whilst studying for your RA-Aus pilot certificate. With your certificate you can fly in command of a RA-Aus registered aircraft in class G airspace with 1 passenger.

 

While learning with your instructor you are logging DUAL hours. It's these that don't count for much later on when getting RPL/PPL. Once you go solo you begin to log hours as Pilot In Command - these count.

 

You then take your RA-Aus pilot certificate with passenger, radio and navigation endorsement and ask for an RPL. You will have all the flight experience already except you will need to do 2 hours of instrument flight in a VH-XXX registered plane and whatever training is necessary to be proficient in controlled airspace procedures. You also need a medical. You can then fly anywhere in Australia with passengers in a VH-XXX or 24-XXXX aircraft (weight restrictions and aircraft type restrictions apply).

 

You then take your RPL and ask for PPL. You will have to do more exams. You'll probably just build required hours through normal flying. You can do further training for night flight, instrument ratings, particular aircraft type ratings, etc.

 

 

[Parkway]

Thanks for the replies, sorry if I'm reposting an old topic! I'll dig around and have a read.

 

It looks to me like RPL plus 5 hours of Nav training and a controlled airspace (since I will be flying out of Jandakot airport) is the way to go for me. I thought that you could only carry one passenger on an RPL, or is that just an airplane specific thing I'm muddling up, since a lot of people flying on RPLs are flying light sport planes?

 

Also, I ended up emailing a flight school that specialises in light sport, and they told me that my 6 hours PPL training wouldn't count towards my 20 hours for RPL but would be helpful as experience. Not that I'm expecting to be done at exactly 20 hours, I understand that you're ready when you're ready.. I'm just looking for a ball park figure money wise to save towards so I can have the majority of the money there and I can get it done.

 

 

[Fishla]

Out of interest, what did you pay per hour for those 6 hours?

 

 

[Parkway]

Out of interest, what did you pay per hour for those 6 hours?

I started doing my PPL in Kalgoorlie and was paying $280 an hour. Then my son came into existence and I had to save my money haha

 

 

[Fishla]

You'll find a RA-Aus school a lot cheaper!

 

 

[Parkway]

Oh and to answer my own question, I just read that you can carry more than one passenger on an RPL as long as you have a class 1 or 2 medical (which I already have)

 

 

[nickduncs84]

.....I ended up emailing a flight school that specialises in light sport, and they told me that my 6 hours PPL training wouldn't count towards my 20 hours for RPL......

Why wouldn't the 6 hours count towards your RPL? Hours are hours. They can count towards your RPL, PPL or CPL as far as I'm aware. Just tell them you've done 6 hours towards your RPL, what's the difference?

I've currently got an RPL and have done about 100 hours since getting it. I also have a cross country endo, retract/csu endo and CTA endo. This is essentially the same amount of training that it would take to get a PPL, except I didn't have to sit the theory exam. To convert my current RPL to a PPL would mean passing the exam and passing a flight test, there would be no extra training hours required.

 

The only reason to get your PPL if you have an RPL is if you want to fly IFR or NVFR or want to fly a heavier plane.

 

So if you are starting out in the GA world, you should just do the PPL, it's essentially the same thing and it will make it easier when you do decide to do your night / instrument rating.

 

If you're looking at saving some coin, I'd get my Ra Aus certificate first and enjoy flying around for $150 an hour for as long as possible. Then when you want to move on to bigger planes, controlled airspace etc, you can convert to a CASA license then. Once you have the RPL, you could probably get checked out in something like a 172 in a few hours and then maybe 3 o4 4 more for the CTA endo.

 

 

[Birdseye]

Slightly off topic, but the whole licence system is a crazy mess. I wanted to use my UK PPL and hours to help obtain a RPL. Why RPL? Well the anticipated cost of my getting a Class 2 is very significant, as I will be treated as a new applicant and being on the wrong side of 59. The doctor issued recreational medical is a more attractive option that covers my needs.

 

However, I can't use my PPL to apply for a RPL, but can apply for a PPL which I could then downgrade to a RPL. OK, thats doable, but wait.......... I have to get a Class 2 medical to first get the PPL!

 

That's all direct advice from CASA, not anyone's interpretation.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Hi Frank to answer your question no thats not correct, if you have a Xcountry endorsement it carries over to the RPL and you can fly as far away as you wish so long as it is within AustraliaCheers

Yep ,fly away after 5 hours nav training ,also controlled airspace! more pax, above 10000 ft with medical! who needs PPL

all your questions should be answered in this 4 page doc

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_rpl_fs.pdf

 

Not my question mate, I said you could get a nav endorsement - question was from Jaba-who

 

 

[PommyRick]

Slightly off topic, but the whole licence system is a crazy mess. I wanted to use my UK PPL and hours to help obtain a RPL. Why RPL? Well the anticipated cost of my getting a Class 2 is very significant, as I will be treated as a new applicant and being on the wrong side of 59. The doctor issued recreational medical is a more attractive option that covers my needs.However, I can't use my PPL to apply for a RPL, but can apply for a PPL which I could then downgrade to a RPL. OK, thats doable, but wait.......... I have to get a Class 2 medical to first get the PPL!

 

That's all direct advice from CASA, not anyone's interpretation.

I had similar thoughts about converting my UK/EASA PPL to something less expensive, as to be honest the largest thing that I'm interested in flying is a Sportscruiser/Pipersports, but in the end decided to just go the whole hog. The Class 2 was frustrating, in the UK the doctor conducting it was a pilot (at Sherburn in Elmet) and it was a bit more practical, but the Class 2 here was done by a doctor strictly following a checklist of items. The plan is to do the BFR and then get an RAA license on the back of the CASA PPL.

 

 

[Icarus]

Sorry Frank. That was supposed to be in a quote box. you will notice the at the end but not at the beginning of the intended quoted text! oooooops

 

 

[68volksy]

Forget the whole cost debate for RA-Aus. Find yourself a GA registered Tecnam or Jabiru and your GA training aircraft will cost the same as an RA-Aus one (or an RA one that's maintained by a professional mechanic anyway!). The difference in prices generally only comes down to the GA instructor being paid the award wage of $60-70 per flying hour whilst the RA instructors don't get a mention in the award and may not even be getting paid at all...

 

The best thing about the RPL option from my point of view is no PPL exam. So long as you're not interested in anything above 1500kg or flying heaps of passengers then it's fun, fun fun!

 

 

[Ada Elle]

I had similar thoughts about converting my UK/EASA PPL to something less expensive, as to be honest the largest thing that I'm interested in flying is a Sportscruiser/Pipersports, but in the end decided to just go the whole hog. The Class 2 was frustrating, in the UK the doctor conducting it was a pilot (at Sherburn in Elmet) and it was a bit more practical, but the Class 2 here was done by a doctor strictly following a checklist of items. The plan is to do the BFR and then get an RAA license on the back of the CASA PPL.

Why not get an RAA license, a RAMPC, then an RPL?

 

 

[ben87r]

That's all direct advice from CASA, not anyone's interpretation.

Try again on another day, similar to a disgruntled ex, CASA have a habit of changing their opinions and interpretations. I nearly got grounded this week because of "someone's " interpretation

 

 

[coljones]

Try again on another day, similar to a disgruntled ex, CASA have a habit of changing their opinions and interpretations. I nearly got grounded this week because of "someone's " interpretation

Somewhere in the rules it says that an examiner can't do a flight test unless the examinee has a class 1 or 2 medical. Yes stupid because it also says that you can hold a PPL with just a RAMPC.

The flight review for an RPL will also test your competence to manage a VH plane in flight so it might take a little longer if coming over from a drifter to a warrior.

 

 

[Birdseye]

The flight review for an RPL will also test your competence to manage a VH plane in flight so it might take a little longer if coming over from a drifter to a warrior.

Apart from the speed difference, I reckon moving to the Warrior will be a cake walk. These ultralights are harder work at times.

 

 

[Ada Elle]

The flight review for an RPL will also test your competence to manage a VH plane in flight so it might take a little longer if coming over from a drifter to a warrior.

Curtis Aviation's website says that they have a VH-registered PiperSport. I wonder if they'll let me do the PPL test in that.

 

 

[planedriver]

As Fishla already stated, it's helpful if you can train in an area where you can get almost straight in the air.

 

I did some training at Bankstown and with long taxi's and getting clearance, probably wasted almost 25% of the time and still on the ground.

 

Other than learning to keep the nose wheel following the white line to the threshold, my learning experience for that 25% was somewhat limited. Worth taking into account unless you have fairly deep pockets.

 

Good Luck

 

Planey