"Pilots Back Reforms for Airspace" affect on RA Aus

[scre80]

Hi All,

 

Just read this article on The Australian website.

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/pilots-back-reforms-for-air-space-overhaul/story-e6frg95x-1227439294191

 

Main takeout is to reduce the height of controlled airspace down to 5000ft, I am assuming not across the country but the article does not go into enough detail.

 

It talks about pilots backing the move, I would say GA pilots but there seems to be no representation from RA Aus pilots here. The effect of this in places could be quite large to RA Aus. Unless CASA allow an endorsement for controlled airspace for RA Aus.

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

 

[terryc]

not able to access the article

 

 

[scre80]

One line from the arcticle says the following

 

CASA is expected to first expand controlled airspace around Ballina, with a recommendation likely soon to lower the level above which controllers still direct traffic from 8500 feet to 5000 feet.

 

 

[ben87r]

It's about lowering class E, class E is non controlled for VFR so wouldn't be an issue apart from the transponder and radio requirements.

 

 

[scre80]

It's about lowering class E, class E is non controlled for VFR so wouldn't be an issue apart from the transponder and radio requirements.

A lot of recreation aircraft do not have transponders, and the cost of retrofitting can be very expensive.

 

Also found another article from a few days ago here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/reform-crucial-for-safety-at-small-airports/story-e6frg6z6-1227437403177, calling to more of the US system.

 

 

[jetjr]

What about 19 reg and recognised powerplans?

 

 

[ben87r]

A lot of recreation aircraft do not have transponders, and the cost of retrofitting can be very expensive..

I do understand that, to be fair, are they the right aircraft to have operating around busy jet RPT aerodromes? The idea is that ADSB will seperate IFR and TCAS for VFR. As long as they don't go over the top with where they locate it I don't see it being a problem.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/pilots-back-reforms-for-air-space-overhaul/story-e6frg95x-1227439294191

 

"The union representing pilots has thrown its weight behind an audacious move to transform management of the nation’s skies by adopting the safer US model extending air traffic control over more airspace, particularly in regional areas.

 

The move also has the clear support of Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss, who as minister responsible for aviation will soon release a new airspace policy statement calling on aviation authorities to “adopt proven international best practice airspace systems adapted to benefit Australia’s aviation environment”.

 

But other aspects of the new direction unveiled last week by the new chairman of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Jeff Boyd, have run into immediate resistance. The government organisation which controls the nation’s air traffic, Airservices Australia, has reiterated its refusal to have the fire crews it employs at regional airports man radios to provide pilots with potentially lifesaving local weather and air traffic information, defying moves by CASA to clear a regulatory path for them to do so.

 

The insistence of Airservices Australia chairman Angus Houston that his organisation’s fire and rescue officers will not provide the Unicom radio advice service, as their US firefighter counterparts do at many regional airports, could result in higher air ticket prices.

 

Regional airports such as Ballina on the NSW north coast which want to introduce a radio service will be forced, in the absence of Airservices firefighters doing so, to hire retired air traffic controllers to perform the role, charging airlines the additional costs, which they will in turn pass on to passengers.

 

Sir Angus’s position pits him against Mr Boyd, who said he would sponsor a board directive aimed at freeing up the range of information that ground staff — including, potentially, fire fighters — can provide to pilots.

 

Airservices and the air traffic controllers union, Civil Air, are united on the firefighters issue, with the union insisting on no changes to the current regulations, which prohibit any person who has not held a controller’s licence in the past 10 years from providing air traffic and weather information.

 

As revealed by The Weekend Australian, CASA will progressively review airspace around the country with a view to extending control where radar or other surveillance technologies permit.

 

Unlike the airspace system in the US and Canada, where commercial aircraft throughout the two countries are always directed by air traffic controllers almost to the runway, whether or not there is radar coverage, Australia has a patchwork system.

 

Apart from the larger cities, controlled airspace generally only comes down to 8500 feet.

 

At this point controllers no longer direct aircraft and pilots are required to talk to each other over the radio to establish each other’s position and work out manoeuvres to avoid colliding with each other.

 

CASA is expected to first expand controlled airspace around Ballina, with a recommendation likely soon to lower the level above which controllers still direct traffic from 8500 feet to 5000 feet.

 

The president of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, airline captain David Booth, said pilots heartily endorsed the move.

 

“We absolutely support that. It gives greater protection to air traffic,” Mr Booth said.

 

He also praised a report by US air traffic control expert Jeff Griffith, who was commissioned by The Australian last week to review Australian airspace, 11 years after the federal government brought him here to help introduce a US-style national airspace system.

 

“This has not happened, but I strongly support this objective even today,” Mr Griffith wrote in his report.

 

Civil Air president Daryl Hickey said he was unable to comment because the union had not seen the specifics of the proposed airspace changes.

 

The manager of Ballina Byron Gateway Airport, Neil Weatherson, has said he would prefer the 17 firefighters based at the airport in a new $13.5 million station with its own viewing tower, to provide the radio service, since they were there anyway and well placed to do so.

 

But he said last week that because Airservices leadership showed no sign of budging, he would instead hire retired air traffic controllers to provide the local weather and traffic advice to pilots.

 

This will require employing three or four new staff, at a cost Mr Weatherson said he would pass on to airlines as airport charges, to in turn be passed on to passengers.

 

An Airservices spokesman reiterated the view expressed by Sir Angus that its firefighters’ prime duty was to be always ready to deal quickly with emergencies.

 

“Our services include rapid response to any incident, anywhere on an airport, in less than three minutes,” Airservices said, adding that this included dealing with any medical incident.

 

The service made more than 6700 responses nationally last year, with 28 lives saved, the spokesman said.

 

Aviator and businessman Dick Smith, who has lobbied for firefighters to provide the radio service, described Airservices’ position as “outrageous’’.

 

“They have a monopoly on providing the fire service, so the airport can’t hire its own fire fighters and direct what duties they will perform, but Airservices won’t provide the radio service,’’ Mr Smith said."

 

 

[jetjr]

are they the right aircraft to have operating around busy jet RPT aerodromes?

Unsure of numbers but REX flys into many uncontrolled places so one more makes little difference to them, and theres what, 4 other RPT flights per day in there?

 

Hardly busy and to exclude RAA because of 30 min or so of activity seems bit rough

 

Am I missing something ......that the extra 2500 ft control between 5000 and 8500 will make a big deal to heavy Jets?

 

The propsal to employ four new people to provide unicom to just a few flights per day seems bit rich too. So is refusing to provide it by ASA existing staff.

 

 

[ben87r]

Am I missing something ......that the extra 2500 ft control between 5000 and 8500 will make a big deal to heavy Jets?

Probably about 1000' :)

 

 

[jetjr]

And your answer is?

 

 

[ben87r]

That there is no restriction to RA using class E in the same way all others use it.

 

 

[scre80]

That there is no restriction to RA using class E in the same way all others use it.

Except the transponder. More concerning is if they turn the airfields / airspace into class d. Will lock our RA Aus all together.

 

 

[ben87r]

Nope, not except the transponder. All aircraft would require it.

 

 

[scre80]

Sorry, yes meant that RA Aus aircraft would have to purchase this.

 

Seems to be that the little organisations are being left out here.

 

 

[ben87r]

It isn't like they will bother doing this everywhere. Few that it would suit from my experience would be Ayres Rock, Curtin, possibly Kununurra but that might be fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and I'm sure there would be a few on the QLD coast.

 

There are a few that they considered class D for, at least with class E RA still has access, if it goes D RA loses allot more.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

no one is talking about D airspace, towers don't just pop up over a few months, takes years of planning and resourcing. Why do you not think its fair for firies who have no traffic training refusing to take on the role of Unicom?

 

How many RAA flyers in current E airspace actually contact FIA and put in flight plans?

 

 

[Birdseye]

Train up the groundsman to operate the radio, he'll probably bit a bit smarter than the average firie that I've encountered.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

or provide the resources for Aerodrome flight information service and do it properly.

 

 

[frank marriott]

AIP Gen 1.5 - 10

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Any form of union stupidity hastens the day when Australia's second political party will free itself from absolute union domination. We will then have an honest alternative to vote for.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

What union stupidity do you refer?

 

It amazes me how we seem "entitled" to pass the responsibility onto someone else yet when it comes time to pay for the service will be up in arms on the extra charges

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Operating something akin to a Unicom is not something that takes a trained professional. Yes, a retired ATC would do it better and a pilot with a little training could do it well enough. Not all fireies might achieve proficiency but many would. It is very selfish of young Angus to make his service look good at the expense of the greater good. There just aren't that many fire emergencies at Ballina that require 13 people standing around holding their ...... breath waiting for something bad to happen. These people must be under utilised. One of the 13 could be trained and do it on the very part time basis required. If they can have success with this system it in the USA it can't be that hard.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

But it's not what they signed up for, they are employed to do the job of Fire and Rescue, not take on the responsibility for providing traffic and weather information to pilots. It's like asking the Postman to collect the recycling bins just because he is driving down the same street. Two very different jobs with extremely different responsibilities.

 

If Flight Information Service is required then it should be done by those trained to do so. But then the person who has been so vocal in the papers on getting Unicom is the same guy who pulled the plug on FIS.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Operating something akin to a Unicom is not something that takes a trained professional. Yes, a retired ATC would do it better and a pilot with a little training could do it well enough. Not all fireies might achieve proficiency but many would. It is very selfish of young Angus to make his service look good at the expense of the greater good. There just aren't that many fire emergencies at Ballina that require 13 people standing around holding their ...... breath waiting for something bad to happen. These people must be under utilised. One of the 13 could be trained and do it on the very part time basis required. If they can have success with this system it in the USA it can't be that hard.

Agree Don. The old argument, they can do it in the US but not in Australian conditions. The requirement to be ASA or Ex ASA is ridiculous. I think it's just ASA trying to protect their turf. Like a plumber who says no one else can change a tap washer. I can give a weather update while flying to the controller but when on the ground, legally I can't reply to another pilot who phones in to ask about the weather and if I did, legally he is not able to take my views into account when planning.