First Circuit!

[Osprey232]

Hi all. Another recruit training weekly with Curtis @ Camden NSW. Loving it and just started circuits in the warrior. The team at Curtis are fantastic.

 

To all those qualified - What was the one aspect you found hardest to master?

 

Cheers

 

 

[SDQDI]

Well I'm certifiable lol not so much qualified but I found the landing the hardest part to get right.

 

Don't beat yourself up if you find one bit hard, everyone gets to a point where it feels like you get to a brick wall but if you just keep at it eventually everything just clicks and falls into place.

 

Although I still do the odd rough landing:whistling:

 

 

[ayavner]

hardest part for me i think was just flying the plane when the workload gets high. Don't get so fixated on the radio/downwind checks/procedure that you forget to fly the thing!

 

 

[Nightmare]

To all those qualified - What was the one aspect you found hardest to master?

Cheers

Judging the flare/round out, I posted a new thread with my frustrations today. Heaps of very helpful people with great advice, I must say. Circuits are by far the most rewarding and fun part of flying so far for me. All the best

 

 

[Guernsey]

A large percentage of my flying was doing circuits, why you might ask, well first of all I really enjoyed doing them but most importantly I was practicing just about every sort of flying manoeuvre, other than aerobatics, that your likely to come across, and I could stop for a coffee or a wee wee at any time..

 

Alan.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

You'll find old VH-PBS knows what to do by herself! You weren't keen on the Citabrias?, they are the best abinitio trainer you'll find. A tip - start yourself a "reflective diary" using a school exercise book. After each session find a quiet spot (on the hill overlooking the airport is good) and run through in your mind what you covered during the flight. Write down a few things that went well and a few that didn't. Research what you could do to fix the things that didn't go well. Also note anything you're not sure about and need to ask the instructor, cause you're likely to forget if you don't write them down. Review the notes the day of / or prior to your next lesson. Maybe even do it with your instructor if time permits.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Hi all. Another recruit training weekly with Curtis @ Camden NSW. Loving it and just started circuits in the warrior. The team at Curtis are fantastic.To all those qualified - What was the one aspect you found hardest to master?

 

Cheers

My Irrational fear of flying machines.

 

Just a little tale for you ( I'm really bad at these. . .)

 

Our CFI told me on Sunday that he'd had a visitor asking about flight training, and after about a half hour explaining all of the excercises, and taking the guy for a 45 minute trial flight, the bloke said to him. . .( and I'm serious here. . .) "I can't see the need for this "Circuits" nonsense,. . . seems to waste a lot of time, . . .I mean you're HERE aren't you ? . . .I can't se why, if you know where you are, you "DON'T JUST LAND THE BLOODY THING AND NOT MUCK ABOUT FLYING IN CIRCLES"

 

I have to be honest,. . . I don't know a simple answer for a non-flyer, to that either !

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Sounds like this guy just needs to learn for himself as to why you "fly circles" around your home field.

 

 

[ian00798]

I always found flying an accurate by the numbers downwind to be the hardest part. Just remember good landings start from early downwind. If you fly downwind at the right speed and spacing, the base and finals will work out too. Generally a bad landing is just a symptom of an inaccurate circuit. But this will all come as you learn. Enjoy your early circuits.

 

 

[Osprey232]

You'll find old VH-PBS knows what to do by herself! You weren't keen on the Citabrias?, they are the best abinitio trainer you'll find. A tip - start yourself a "reflective diary" using a school exercise book. After each session find a quiet spot (on the hill overlooking the airport is good) and run through in your mind what you covered during the flight. Write down a few things that went well and a few that didn't. Research what you could do to fix the things that didn't go well. Also note anything you're not sure about and need to ask the instructor, cause you're likely to forget if you don't write them down. Review the notes the day of / or prior to your next lesson. Maybe even do it with your instructor if time permits.

Hey good advice thanks. After my second week of circuits she is coming down nicely, although weather is perfect at the moment. Another lesson this afternoon. As "ayavner" says its just coping with the workload and remembering the "fly the plane" - all good advice. Absolutely loving it. I did my TIF in the Citabria but Dave suggested we do the training in the Piper. Cheers all.

 

 

[Osprey232]

I always found flying an accurate by the numbers downwind to be the hardest part. Just remember good landings start from early downwind. If you fly downwind at the right speed and spacing, the base and finals will work out too. Generally a bad landing is just a symptom of an inaccurate circuit. But this will all come as you learn. Enjoy your early circuits.

Yeah I learnt that pretty well last lesson. The few downwinds that were spot on ended up with a good base and final. Good advice - thx

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Well done! I muffed my first couple of circuits in the Warrior (-JAZ) but once I got used to the feel of the plane it becomes second nature. A lot more energy to burn off than what I'm used to, and I'm not a fan of the right hand circuits.

 

 

[facthunter]

The circuit is a trained predictable way of getting the plane prepared for a landing. You may not always do one later in your career, but your approach should be compared to one so that you do certain things at a time that gets it done without rush and confusion, in a logical order . Errors are often related to doing things out of normal sequence. Nev

 

 

[ayavner]

Not only that, since landing is the most difficult (and arguably most important) part, circuits are a way to get in 6 or so in an hour rather than 1 per lesson. Hopefully under varying conditions over time.

 

 

[facthunter]

Ada, you are not in the optimum seat for right hand circuits either, but you still must be able to do (adapt) to them. It's surprising how people familiar with a certain aerodrome will muck up a circuit when the direction is reversed. You might get accustomed to using known turning points for delineating the circuit, but while this helps your performance at that particular aerodrome , when you go somewhere else, you won't have that luxury, SO you need to use visual reference to the strip itself and a concept of timing to be able to adapt to other unfamiliar situations, adequately.. Nev

 

 

[ian00798]

And there are lots of transitions, ie climb to s&l, descent etc, so you get used to all the rudder and power changes. Circuits are basically an entire flight in 6 minutes, from take off to landing. And the give you the opportunity to quickly learn that power + attitude = performance. Set the correct attitude, with the right power and instead of feeling like 30 seconds the 6 minute circuit will seem to be 20 minutes.

 

 

[Osprey232]

I am learnig quickly how much of an advantage it is to trim during the circuit. It's a 5 second job that makes a massive difference to how relaxed you can be on base and final.

 

 

[facthunter]

Much less than 5 seconds. It's instinctive if you are doing it right. Don't trim to neutral in turns. Trim for reduced speeds and flap and gear extension, but some like to keep a little bit of pull effort approaching flare. Nev

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Osprey, were you in -PBS late in the afternoon? I think I saw you in the circuit as I was coming back in -SXQ.

 

I'm not good enough at picking a degree or two in attitude so I've been trimming to airspeed (ie hold the nose constant, let the airspeed stabilise, then trim a little bit before or past that depending on the relationship of the airspeed to the desired airspeed), then changing engine power based on RoC and using the elevator to dampen the phugoid. It's not pretty, but if I'm paying attention I can get it to work.

 

Nev - the wing relation sight picture is different between the left and right wings when seated in the left seat. In the citab it was a lot easier except for the need to really use the right foot doing all those powered right hand turns.

 

 

[facthunter]

I was mainly relating to the side by side situation. Left circuits are standard with PIC in left seat. Tandem is good visibility. Right circuits only supposed to be specified when a good operational reason requires it. That was the policy in Australia when I last visited the rules. Nev

 

 

[Ada Elle]

so many noise complaints that the majority of airports I've flown out of do right hand circuits at least part of the time, or the other reason is contracircuits for parallel runways (YSCN and YSBK).

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I am learnig quickly how much of an advantage it is to trim during the circuit. It's a 5 second job that makes a massive difference to how relaxed you can be on base and final.

Good Lesson Sir. . . . saves a lot of effort when you're new to the game. Today, I flew with a friend who recently bought a Rans S6 ( 582 Rotax ) and I have to say ( again) what a shambles of a design the trim system is in those aircraft,. . . ie, wind the wheel back several turns,. . .= no noticeable difference. . . Forward. . .same,. . . . fortunately, the forces in that type are not really that bad, and it seems not to mind flying around in neutral trim !. . .I guess if the trim cables were tightened up, there might just be a difference, but friend had no problem with it, with or without flaps. ( ex GA jockey ) However, some aircraft are not so user friendly if you ignore the trim control ! ! ! !

 

The PA28/151/161/etc. have quite an effective trim, as you've discovered and when used at the right time, in the right place, make life a lot easier ! If you ever bother uprating to Pipers with an electric trim button on the yoke WELL. . .What Luxury ! ! But as you will find,. . after a while you will trim for everything without even consciously realizing that you're doing it.

 

Unless it's a CHEROKEE 140 Jeeze . . . . . I STILL can't remember which way to wind the holden car window winder handle on the roof of the cabin for up or down pitch trim. . . .

 

Enjoy.

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I was mainly relating to the side by side situation. Left circuits are standard with PIC in left seat. Tandem is good visibility. Right circuits only supposed to be specified when a good operational reason requires it. That was the policy in Australia when I last visited the rules. Nev

Like at Morabbin in the 1970s,. . . . coming over there from Casey Field I was often asked to use RH for ( sorry . . .can't remember the runway orientations,. . .getting old ! )

 

When I was a Sprog pilot, this DID worry me, from the visual problem that you have mentioned. What worried me more, was heading straight towards another aircraft that was on base for the Left hand runway, occasionally, this would happen. . . . but after a while, I started buying more absorbant jockettes. . . .

 

 

[Ada Elle]

The PA28/151/161/etc. have quite an effective trim, as you've discovered and when used at the right time, in the right place, make life a lot easier ! If you ever bother uprating to Pipers with an electric trim button on the yoke WELL. . .What Luxury ! ! But as you will find,. . after a while you will trim for everything without even consciously realizing that you're doing it.

I almost fly on trim these days - almost wish there was some way to stiffen up the stick pitch control so that I didn't inadvertently pitch up and down once I had it trimmed for a certain AoA.

 

The Citabria's trim on the door is is a pretty good spot reach-wise for me, but the three door levers (trim, carby heat, and throttle) had me pitch down violently trying to put the carby heat on. Need shaped knobs so you can tell which one you have by feel.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

The Citabria's trim on the door is is a pretty good spot reach-wise for me, but the three door levers (trim, carby heat, and throttle) had me pitch down violently trying to put the carby heat on. Need shaped knobs so you can tell which one you have by feel.

This might be a cheap lesson in identifying the control before operating it. Better trim misidentified as carb heat than gear lever as flap after landing!