Gyrocopter crash in Victoria

[Guest ozzie]

Low and slow smart one are still here. They just check the area before hand. You just don't go blurting on through with no forward planning.

 

 

[turboplanner]

CAO 95.12

Thanks for that.

While this is not necessarily relevant to this incident, CAO 95.12 Instrument 2011, is a little confusing:

 

In 7.4 the upper limit is 500 feet unless the Pilot Certificate is endorsed

 

There is no specified exemption from the 500 foot CAR limit.

 

In 7.1, the only reference to 300 feet is where it permits flight at less than 300 feet over land subject to three conditions.

 

In 7.2,7.3, there are similar "if flown at less than 500 feet conditions.

 

It almost looks as if the 300 is a typo for 500, unless there is an external reference.

 

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2015C00154

 

 

[facthunter]

Quite saddening. Wires can be very invisible. You would want to carefully survey any area first before flying where they might be. Who hasn't seen one till the last minute when selecting a suitable forced landing area. SWER scary.Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

Warneet is inside D385 and Cannon Creek is inside the North Westernport Conservation Reserve.

 

8.1 Subject to paragraphs 8.2 and 8.3, a gyroplane to which this Order applies may be flown at a height of less than 300 feet above ground level over land owned by a person (including the Crown), only if:

 

(a) the gyroplane is flying in the course of actually taking off or landing; or

 

(b) the gyroplane is flying over land that is owned by, or under the control of, the pilot; or

 

© the owner or occupier (including the Crown) of the land, or an agent or employee of the owner or occupier, has given permission for the flight to take place at such a height.

 

To fly above 500' an endorsement is required and then you start to need other things as well.

 

Kaz

 

 

[red750]

 

This was a two place machine with two POB.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Quite saddening. Wires can be very invisible. You would want to carefully survey any area first before flying where they might be. Who hasn't seen one till the last minute when selecting a suitable forced landing area. SWER scary.Nev[/quoteWe must remember Nev,

 

He flew in to the power line it did not fly in to him, if your not down at that level your not going to hit anything.

 

Very sad for the pilots family indeed but it seems like it was just a matter of time.

 

I really cannot understand people who post low flying videos on the web,don't they realise that CASA can pull your ticket if someone see's it.

 

Never ceases to amaze me how stupid people can be

[kaz3g]

[ATTACH=full]37301[/ATTACH]

This was a two place machine with two POB.

This Order substitutes Schedule 1 in Civil Aviation Order 95.12.1 (CAO 95.12.1). CAO 95.12.1 refers to 2-place gyroplanes and single-place gyroplanes that meet one of the sets of criteria set out in subsection 1 of Schedule 1.

 

 

 

1.2 This Order also applies to a 2-place gyroplane or a single-place gyroplane if:.....

 

 

 

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2011L00614/Html/Text

 

 

[Cosmick]

The Pilot known as Flyer in the PPC forums and Cavalon 48 in the rec flyers forum enjoyed flight. evolved into a faster machine "Gyro's" and appears to have pushed it to the edge. No excuses, we all do silly things and fortunately most of us learn from our mistakes. Have a thought for those that don't. Condolences to family and friends.

 

 

[Robbo]

One of my previous jobs was in aerial survey of powerlines and we were flying 50-100 feet off the deck doing 100 knots at arms length of high voltage powerlines in a Cessna 172.

 

The amount of low level training we had to do was intense and people did fail the endorsement.

 

Not only CASA but we then had seperate safety briefings and training from the energy company.

 

It was preety stressful and if you felt you were not right on the day you never flew that day!

 

 

[KRviator]

The Pilot known as Flyer in the PPC forums and Cavalon 48 in the rec flyers forum enjoyed flight. evolved into a faster machine "Gyro's" and appears to have pushed it to the edge. No excuses, we all do silly things and fortunately most of us learn from our mistakes. Have a thought for those that don't.

The problem with this belief is aviation is a terribly unforgiving activity and as has been said many a time, we must learn from the mistakes of others, for you won't live long enough to make all of them yourself.There is no excuse for hitting a powerline in what I would term "normal" recreational aviation. Ol' mate in his gyro clearly enjoyed hot-dogging at low level, using the permissibility of CAO95.12 to justify his actions and it cost him his life and very nearly that of his passenger. I sincerely doubt authorisation was obtained, or even sought, to operate <300AGL and as such, odds are the gyro was knowingly being operated in contravention of the CAO's. IF the insurer can prove this, it opens a massive can or worms for the pilots estate in terms of the injured passenger.

 

One thing to be aware of folks - just because you may have killed yourself by being an idiot, does not absolve your estate from compensating victims of your activity. IF someone was injured or killed as a result of the downed powerline, you can expect a massive claim against your estate with all the grief for your family that that entails. Don't believe me? Check out the case of Greg Maddock, former Energex CEO who stepped in front of a train whose driver subsequently and successfully sued his estate. Or the case of the cropduster (in NSW, IIRC) who dislodged, but didn't sever, a powerline and the power company repairman was subsequently injured on contacting the downed line, who in turn sued both the operator and owner -this is despite being aware of both the powerline's location and damage...

 

Have fun by all means, but just because something is legal does not make it safe. Or smart....

 

 

[Guest asmol]

I remember hearing about a plane in Wellington running into a powerline blacking out a small town about 15 years ago.

 

The pilot was sued by the service station that couldn't pump fuel on one of his busiest days of the year (long weekend), a bride got a payout of about 200k because the church service was delayed with no power and the caters couldn't cook any food for the +300 guests and so it went on and on. It was millions in claims in the end but i didnt hear the end result other than the wedding.

 

The snowball effect is really hard to believe until you ruin a wedding or someones life by neglegence etc

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

If you fly at powerline height expect to hit one at some stage. AG pilots know this too well and have wire cutters fitted to their aircraft for when it happens, together with sophisticated computer programs showing them where all lines are" for forward planning. These are kept updated by the power companies...still they hit them on occasions...most survive, some don't each year. So what chance do we have ??........same applies to flying down rivers at low level , very tempting but don't do it. Lots of unmarked lines running across rivers and creeks with supporting poles and towers often hidden in trees or bush.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's plenty of weddings that ruin peoples lives and don't get compensated for. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Condolences to family and friends.

 

 

[poteroo]

Sad event for family and friends. Just hope they think before looking for a point of blame in the aftermath. Everyone knows the low flying rules, and whether it's 300 with exemption, or 500 as per CAR 157, is academic. The real danger zone is below 150 ft because it places you at much the same level as major lines. With spraying work, you are below 50ft and that does improve your detection of lines. Anyway, aggies have already had a good look at a map, spoken to the owner, done an overhead survey prior to dropping in to spray height, and use a full hi/lo scan as they go. They don't fly cross country at low level because there is no telling what's ahead, plus it's illegal, it's unnecessarily increasing risk, and it's foolhardy.

 

 

[Guest GraemeM]

The results are not in yet but just maybe there were mechanical reasons for being that low in that particular place. Lets not point fingers to early gents.

 

Graeme.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No need for us to get involved. One of the witnesses was a fisherman in the creek; pilot allegedly waved to him.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I remember hearing about a plane in Wellington running into a powerline blacking out a small town about 15 years ago.The pilot was sued by the service station that couldn't pump fuel on one of his busiest days of the year (long weekend), a bride got a payout of about 200k because the church service was delayed with no power and the caters couldn't cook any food for the +300 guests and so it went on and on. It was millions in claims in the end but i didnt hear the end result other than the wedding.

 

The snowball effect is really hard to believe until you ruin a wedding or someones life by neglegence etc

But I don't understand ? Why didn't the church simply ask the the man up stairs to shine some light and supply power ?

 

 

[PA.]

But I don't understand ? Why didn't the church simply ask the the man up stairs to shine some light and supply power ?

Because she was saving a child from cancer because they got 100,000 Facebook likes.

 

 

[alf jessup]

The results are not in yet but just maybe there were mechanical reasons for being that low in that particular place. Lets not point fingers to early gents.Graeme.

Graeme,

 

No one is pointing fingers mate but if you go to tell us about your last flight he openly admits to low flying in the video he posted, I don't think you have to be Einstein to work out how it happened

 

The saddest part is the grief he has bought on to his family and friends through no fault but his own by the looks of it.

 

The only positive out of this tragic event is his innocent passenger is still alive at this stage

 

Alf

 

 

[frank marriott]

If you fly at powerline height expect to hit one at some stage. AG pilots know this too well and have wire cutters fitted to their aircraft for when it happens, together with sophisticated computer programs showing them where all lines are" for forward planning. These are kept updated by the power companies...still they hit them on occasions...most survive, some don't each year. So what chance do we have ??........same applies to flying down rivers at low level , very tempting but don't do it. Lots of unmarked lines running across rivers and creeks with supporting poles and towers often hidden in trees or bush.

Interesting comments Ross, what would say about someone doing joy flights at 300ft, flying along the beach at zero ft for 10 mls, returning over a built up area at 600ft, downwind at 400 ft and turning final at 200ft. Would you call that responsible (forget about the CAR breaches)?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Interesting comments Ross, what would say about someone doing joy flights at 300ft, flying along the beach at zero ft for 10 mls, returning over a built up area at 600ft, downwind at 400 ft and turning final at 200ft. Would you call that responsible (forget about the CAR breaches)?

I would say it sounds like someone exercising their LL endo and flying a local newspaper photographer for some fly-in and local scenic photos to me. I like to be at least within sight of the airport itself when I turn final, nothing wrong with turning final at 200ft. You can be at any height you want during landing or takeoff, in fact finals to 23 at Ingham take you directly over a built up area, as it does at many other airports throughout this large country.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And what sort of wanker message does that send to the general public?

 

 

[frank marriott]

05

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

And what sort of wanker message does that send to the general public?

There's absolutly nothing wrong with flying a 500ft pattern in an Ultralight, in fact some airports require it for traffic separation. And certainly nothing wrong or illegal about turning final at 200ft...pilots discression completely and more then adequate when flying a circular approach if that is the case. Maybe the pilot was requested to 'expedite arrival' due other arriving traffic. Then he would be exercising good decision making and showing good airmanship.

Now another pilot flying an aircraft with an engine under a CASA directive who flys a 5 nm wide circuit over very inhospitable country offering no suitable emergency landing options, or absolutly no chance of making the runway if the motor failed, could well be accused of exercising poor airmanship and poor decision making skills.