Gyrocopter crash in Victoria

[frank marriott]

Might be worth a read of AIP ENR 1.1 - 77 48.5.6

 

 

[503]

As sad as this is ,once flying low and slow as many have and I do in ppc..low and fast ,not checking out area first is a gamble that will Not end well,better than 100 other ways to end your life,RIP Carl ,true flying to the last 10 seconds,i would rather fly and die than never fly

 

 

[alf jessup]

As sad as this is ,once flying low and slow as many have and I do in ppc..low and fast ,not checking out area first is a gamble that will Not end well,better than 100 other ways to end your life,RIP Carl ,true flying to the last 10 seconds,i would rather fly and die than never fly

Have to disagree with you 503,

 

True flying to the last 10 seconds?

 

True flying is flying to the rules and going back home at the end of your flight to the ones who love you instead of this and putting his family through what they are going through right now.

 

I would rather keep flying for many long years and die a ripe old age instead of cutting it short for no real reason

 

 

[503]

sad for the family sure,rules?the guy was living his dream to to full,sure a reminder of what can be,it's up to only us how much risk ,rules are for sheep,I am me,I'll make my own choices thanks ,while trying not to muck it up for others in the future ,if there is such a thing ,30 years on 90% of us will be dead as will be rec flying

 

 

[turboplanner]

The Biggles culture seems to be spreading.

 

 

[01rmb]

I saw someone take off from Caboolture a couple of weekends ago do a right hand turn at 200ft over the highway before shooting off downwind at 400ft (and it was not a low performance aircraft). My comment was 'there goes a future fatal crash...'

 

Rules that are trying to keep people from having a problem too close to the ground to recover from and killing themselves and their passengers. should not be waved away with an optimistic shrug of the shoulders. With the current death rate of 1 a month it makes sense to do the right thing and give yourself plenty of room above the ground especially when doing a slow turn close to the ground when taking off or landing. So no - I would not consider a circuit, turn onto cross wind or turn onto finals at a low height good airmanship nor a good example to set for other pilots. It is a risk you just don't have to take.

 

A 500ft circuit is okay for a low performance aircraft as defined as ultralights and rotary wing with a maximum speed of approximately 55KT. There is however something wrong and illegal about turning final at 200ft, as shown in the AIP ENR, RA-Aus Operations Manual and CAO 95.10, 95.32 and 95.55 extracts below.

 

AIP ENR

 

41.1 Circuit Information

 

41.1.4 During the initial climb-out the turn onto crosswind should be made appropriate to the performance of the aircraft, but in any case not less than 500FT (CAR 166A(2)(f)), so as to be at circuit height when turning downwind.

 

41.3 Circuit Height

 

41.3.1 When operating at non-controlled aerodromes, the following circuit heights are recommended:

 

1. High performance - includes jets and many turbo-prop air- craft, above approximately 150KT, 1,500FT AGL;
    
    
   
2. Medium performance - includes most piston engine aircraft, between approximately 55KT and 150KT, 1,000FT AGL;
    
    
   
3. Low performance - ultralights and rotary wing with a maximum speed of approximately 55KT, 500FT AGL (Refer to diagram at 48.5).
    
    
   

 

 

 

48.5 Circuit Entry

 

48.5.6 When on the final leg, confirm the runway is clear for landing. The turn onto final approach should be completed by a distance and height that is common to the operations at the particular aerodrome and commensurate with the speed flown in the circuit for the aircraft type. In any case, the turn onto final should be completed by not less than 500FT above aerodrome elevation. This should allow sufficient time for pilots to ensure the runway is clear for landing. It will also allow for the majority of aircraft to be stabilised for the approach and landing.

 

RA-AUS Operations Manual

 

LOW LEVEL ENDORSEMENT (LL) 9. No Pilot Certificate holder shall operate a recreational aeroplane as pilot in command below 500FT AGL unless: a. the aeroplane is operated in accordance with the requirements set out in CAO 95.10, 95.32 and 95.55, under “Provisions relating to flight height limitations”; and b. holds a RA-Aus Low Level (LL) Endorsement.

 

CAO 95.10, 95.32 and 95.55 (more or less say the same thing)

 

Provisions relating to flight height limitations

 

8.1 An aeroplane, to which this Order applies, may be flown at a height of less than 500 feet above ground level, or 300 feet in the case of a powered parachute, if: (a) the aeroplane is flying in the course of actually taking off or landing; or (b) the aeroplane is flying over land that is owned by, or under the control of, the pilot; or Federal Register of Legislative Instruments F2011L00615 Page 9 of 10 pages © the owner or occupier (including the Crown) of the land, or an agent or employee of the owner or occupier, has given permission for the flight to take place at such a height; or (d) the pilot of the aeroplane is engaged in flying training and the aeroplane is flying over a part of a flying training area over which CASA has, under subregulation 141 (1) of CAR 1988, authorised low flying.

 

8.2 Except when taking off or landing, an aeroplane flown at a height lower than 500 feet above ground level, or 300 feet in the case of a powered parachute, must be at a distance of at least 100 metres horizontally from: (a) a public road; or (b) a person other than a person associated with the operation of the aeroplane; or © a dwelling, except with the permission of the owner or occupier.

 

8.3 When taking off or landing, an aeroplane flown at a height lower than 500 feet above ground level, or 300 feet in the case of a powered parachute, must, during the take-off or landing, maintain a horizontal distance from a place or person referred to in subparagraph 8.2 (a), (b) or © that may be less than 100 metres but is: (a) enough to avoid endangering any person or causing damage to any property; and (b) as far as possible from such a place or person, having regard to carrying out a safe take-off or landing.

 

 

[fallowdeer]

Horses for courses. There's a world of difference between completely unnecessary low level flying and low level flying for a purpose. A close in circuit at perhaps 300ft might be a completely appropriate procedure for some strips. In that case it's all about balanced flight and correct airspeed management. Thread drift anyway....

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

If you fly at powerline height expect to hit one at some stage. AG pilots know this too well and have wire cutters fitted to their aircraft for when it happens,...same applies to flying down rivers at low level , very tempting but don't do it. Lots of unmarked lines running across rivers and creeks with supporting poles and towers often hidden in trees or bush.

Well, I certainly agree. I can think rather quickly of 10 people I know or knew who went in after hitting power lines. Four were in two power line patrol aircraft (2 separate incidents, all survived with injuries), two more had just concluded power line patrol but decided to low-fly a river on the way home. People in two ski boats pulled them from the water. They survived. Two were on approach to landing at night at an away airport when they hit an unseen power line. One plane, two fatalities. Two others were crop-dusters. Both went in during spraying or dusting operations. Both fatal. I didn't know them, but three others returning home after an emergency delivery to a hospital went down in a air ambulance helicopter while low-flying our local river. Three fatalities.

 

Then there were three who hit the hard deck in 2 separate incidents. Two survived despite hitting the side of a mountain, one didn't. May have been the same ridge line.

 

I know the family of another young pilot who was low-flying the interstate. He climbed over a bridge that crossed the highway and ducked back down just in time to hit a power line. His photo on the wall in a building I frequent reminds me of that one rather regularly. I never had the opportunity to meet him. My loss.

 

I also lost a friend (and long-ago instrument student) who was buzzing his parents' home. That one was a stall-spin crash. Two fatalities. He was a high-time CFI at the time of the crash.

 

Surviving bad choices may provide experience but at what cost? Most of us probably have made bad decisions at times in the past, but it's better to learn from the mistakes of others than to go out and gather up a passel of your own.

 

Stay safe out there friends, lest something stands in your way or reaches out an smites you. With altitude comes migrating waterfowl, conflicting traffic, hypoxia, and longer descents but with no altitude comes power lines, power poles, antennas, trees, hard deck, flying squirrels, tall people, and mail boxes.

 

 

[Russ]

investigation by asra.............low level, illegal operation. ( end of speculations )

 

 

[ave8rr]

investigation by asra.............low level, illegal operation. ( end of speculations )

And again ASRA can come out and state this. RAAus still wants a Coroners Report before commenting on any accidents they (RAAus) attend.

 

 

[Russ]

what's this.."and again " bla bla are you on about. ???

 

As ALWAYS the legal requirements are always done. ( in this case, it's cut and dry ).......no speculating needed.....not medical, not mechanical. Pilot error.

 

 

[facthunter]

Do you really think ERROR is what it is? Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Suicide by aviating.

 

 

[ave8rr]

what's this.."and again " bla bla are you on about. ???As ALWAYS the legal requirements are always done. ( in this case, it's cut and dry ).......no speculating needed.....not medical, not mechanical. Pilot error.

Sorry Russ what I was trying to say was that ASRA can comment on an accident but RAAus don't seem to want to when certain accidents are also cut and dry to use your words. I cant understand why the two organisations have different views on reporting.

 

 

[Russ]

hell..........you could come up with a list of ???

 

pilot error, poor aviating, bravado, stupidity, +++++++++++++

 

you can train folks to excellent skills, but sometimes.......at a particular time/place............that training goes out the window....for that moment.

 

 

[facthunter]

Pilot error is an old over used term. It actually tells you nothing . Maybe it's crept back in but I don't like it if we are going to seriously deal with accidents in an analytical way. Nev

 

 

[Russ]

so when "a pilot"...........faults, ( he.......stuffed up ) what analytical pathway ??? do you suggest it goes. ( i repeat......"sometimes" all the training, poss dangers, etc etc, get tossed out the window, for that moment )

 

Can't see how to control that. ( bravado, can be a huge demon.....sometimes )

 

 

[red750]

Like the driver who exceeds the speed limit on drugs while suspended. Living the dream which becomes a nightmare when it all comes unstuck. Derr - the laws/regulations weren't meant for me.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Back in a time when we had professionals like Macarthur Job investigating accidents and reporting on them, we got the whole story.

 

There weren't the public posts then of low flying, beach beatups and so on, but the investigators would interrogate the person's community, and the report would often be stinging, as they uncovered, for example, the persons regular drinking before flying, his boasts about flying under bridges, flying through cloud etc, evidence from the club about some near misses or similar incidents, and you were left with no doubt about how to avoid getting your head severed by a power line etc. It allowed you to make smarter decisions and help avoid unnecessary repetitions.

 

 

[turboplanner]

investigation by asra.............low level, illegal operation. ( end of speculations )

If ASRA have said that, good on them.

Removes any stigma about the aircraft, the good pilots, the culture of the organization.

 

 

[2tonne]

When the pilot first posted a video of low level flying, I commented to my wife that it was risky and that pilots that engage in those risks are the ones that end up in the statistics. I now feel that I should have directed those comments at the pilot. May not have made a difference, but by not condemning it at the time, are we somehow giving implied acceptance of these activities?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Me too - it was just so blatantly obvious, but I'd criticised a few others in the past couple of weeks, so I thought, let him take care of himself.

 

No we are not giving implied acceptance of these activities, since most of the cowboys are spoken to and tone down, but there are always a few, who are beyond reason, and if spoken to they'll just hide the activity and take themselves out by the percentages.

 

What is pleasing to see on this site, is that after some of our arguments/discussions, some people clearly take it on board, and post some very good material themselves.

 

 

[Russ]

If ASRA have said that, good on them.Removes any stigma about the aircraft, the good pilots, the culture of the organization.

what stigma re "culture of the organisation" ???? ...( stigma....negative tone )......asra has regularly received nothing but positives from casa, audits go well, and in house management, is what some others strive to achieve.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I said "any stigma" meaning "any chance of a stigma" or "no chance of criticising"..........and that applies to the aircraft type, the pilots, the culture.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I have seen and spoken to the deceased pilot many times. He used to unload the Gyro next to my hangar at Tyabb. He was, it has been written, on his way to Tooradin from Tyabb. . Which would take him directly over Canons creek if you're flying in a straight line. I fly a semi circle over that bit of the coast at 1200 plus feet as it is VERY inhospitable with extensive mudflats and mangrove marshes. Not somewhere to make a successful forced landing and I never saw any power lines at my height.... It's a shame he didn't do the same. I have spoken to him about his very advanced and fast Gyro...but never saw him perform a low level circuit....What a shame.......