Is there such a thing as budget supplies..

[Bernie Knight]

Hi all,

 

I have been - like many of you - looking on both websites and in magazines with the aim of purchasing cheaper good quality parts or supplies...

 

For a long time I have purchased my charts, maps and assorted parts from a Moorabin based supplier 'Skylines Aviation' and have found service and pricing to be competive. Importantly, I receive my orders within days and all parts etc are well wrapped and packaged.

 

... But I am starting to realise there are only a few supplies that you can really rely on to deliver.

 

I recently ordered WAC charts and a few items from a Queensland based business that refers to themselves as a budget pilot parts business.

 

This companies website extols its virtues of;

 

# $10 Flat Shipping and

 

# If your interested in saving your in the right place and

 

# you can choose to save money etc etc ..

 

Well not only did I not get my order from this budget supplier,

 

but when I followed up I was told it was probably at my Post Office..

 

This was not the case and then to add to their poor performance they did answer my follow up emails sent to them.

 

 

It's a bit frustrating as I have written off the order completely and my money/costs as it's difficult to prove I have not got the order. Not to mention that in 0ver 20 years I have never had a postal order go missing.

 

 

I find its also frustrating opening the current edition of our magazine 'Sport Pilot' and seeing an XTreme Mini EFIS at a cost of $1350 and then to find the cost is in fact over hundreds more when I call the supplier to place an order.

 

 

I'm not sure if I'm the only one that finds it a bit frustrating when I order from advertisers whom supposedly support the magazine and our recreational aviation to be left wanting by some suppliers and advertisers.

 

My thoughts are - some suppliers need to have a good look at their business and realise we are a big part of the market and that whilst we may not have a GA or VH registered aircraft - or a PPL - we certainly have buying power and will vote with our feet if service is not up to scratch.

 

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

 

I know there are numerous advertisers and suppliers whom do deliver what they promise, but this few leave me wondering..

 

Stay safe...

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I find its also frustrating opening the current edition of our magazine 'Sport Pilot' and seeing an XTreme Mini EFIS at a cost of $1350 and then to find the cost is in fact over hundreds more when I call the supplier to place an order.

 

 

After waiting in vain for the Dynon agent to supply us with a unit, we started shopping around. We ordered a Dynon from the advertiser on the back of Sport Pilot (Mendelssohn) at the advertised rate - when we phoned they said the price was $200 dearer, we paid that accepting that prices on US stock probably went up with the movement in the dollar, however next month and the months after the advertised price remained the same. We particularly chose this supplier because we thought we were supporting RAA. They were very prompt on delivery, but they haven't got any repeat sales from us.

 

 

 

Clear Prop shop is pretty prompt and affordable, but Ian does have his "off" days, but we understand, and support it because it keeps this site going.

 

 

 

We had another experience trying to get a fuel tank out of the USA from RANS. It took a fortnight between email and answer, which was usually "ring us" and when we did (after 10pm and before 7am) they couldn't find emails and had to go through the whole thing again. In the end the fuel tank was in stock $213USD and they would get back to us about freight; about a month later $700USD! We could get freight much cheaper, all they had to do was confirm that the package was ready to be picked up - after 3 months chasing them each time the freight company gave up. The whole process took a year. We ended up repairing our old tank.

 

 

 

Sue

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Sue,

 

Like you I thought - and still do - that buying off the advertisers in our magazine is supporting the RA Aus .

 

But I'm particularly disappointed in my transaction with the budget supplier in Queensland whom lead me to believe that his sale items are better than prices anywhere..

 

For that business to state your parcel was mailed 15 days ago and then it does not turn up leaves me to wonder if it was ever sent...

 

If an advertiser of business makes these service statements or advertises prices in the current RA Aus magazine then that price should be honored.

 

I wondering how many others have lost purchases in the mail... I certainly haven't in the last 20 years in receiving weekly mail orders into our business until now.

 

Thanks I will place 'Clear Prop' on my list of reputable suppliers.

 

Safe flying.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Oops - sorry it was 'Budget Pilot Supplies' in Queensland on whom I have been waiting for my order since late July 2015..

 

I gave up and re ordered from 'Skylines Aviation Supply' at Moorabin in Victoria and received my order in 48 hours via the postal service that supposedly lost my 'Budget Pilot Supplies' order..

 

 

[kgwilson]

Same problem here. Ordered a Dynon D6 at the advertised price 18 months ago & paid several hundred dollars more. This was due (they said) because of the declining Aussie dollar. Then there was a 2% credit card fee plus freight. GRRRR. It was the same when I ordered a snap fitting for a pneumatic riveter. Cost $6.58 from Aircraft Spruce & $59.00 freight even when I asked for the cheapest delivery option. The problem really is the lack of competition though even that doesn't deter them. I recently got some Shell 100 oil for breaking in my engine from Shell at Archerfield for $7.38 a quart & the Pilot Shop at Archerfield wanted $19.00 for the same quart. I now always shop around.

 

 

[Sav 4352]

Just purchase your maps online from Airservices.

 

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/store/avcharts.asp

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I ordered a couple of items from the pilot shop of the forums here and it wasn't a pleasant experience. It took over two months, numerous unreturned phone calls and emails to get my stuff. In the end I did recieve the goods, but in the process got quite a few lame excuses from Ian ranging from him not having credit on his phone to tales of suppliers not supplying goods. When I finally did get my stuff two months after I ordered it, it came with an apology of sorts stating that he had ordered the goods from the supplier "more than two weeks ago". Quite clearly, it was some time after I placed the order, that he placed the order with the suppliers and I assume that my order got lost in his "system". I fully believe that if I hadn't continually chased him, I might never have got my stuff.

 

I won't be rushing back to buy from this shop.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

csscotthendry

 

It's certainly disappointing to hear I'm not alone in purchases.

 

Yes I agree with comments above on pricing and it amazes me that these businesses can survive giving this type of service or lack of service. Maybe the business owners have other full time income and its a hobby business.

 

I purchased snap in circular vents from Aircraft spruce a few years back and the freight and handling cost was five times the item costs - a joke..

 

I think I'll avoid any business with the words - Budget, Cheap or Discount in their title..

 

Cheers

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I have a friend who has a saying "There's nothing as expensive as a bargain". It often turns out that way.

 

Some years back there was also a very clever tyre advert on the radio. Two guys are chatting in the pub, let's call them Jim and Bob

 

Jim: Hey Bob, how come you always buy the cheapest tyres?

 

Bob: How else could I afford to replace them every three months?

 

 

[Ferris]

I am surprised at the critcism of Ian, as though I don't shop through that business all that often, the experience has always been good. Prices as advertised and delivery within the week. In the case of a headset that I bought and went faulty, it was fixed without charge well outside the warranty period.

 

I ordered a couple of items from the pilot shop of the forums here and it wasn't a pleasant experience. It took over two months, numerous unreturned phone calls and emails to get my stuff. In the end I did recieve the goods, but in the process got quite a few lame excuses from Ian ranging from him not having credit on his phone to tales of suppliers not supplying goods. When I finally did get my stuff two months after I ordered it, it came with an apology of sorts stating that he had ordered the goods from the supplier "more than two weeks ago". Quite clearly, it was some time after I placed the order, that he placed the order with the suppliers and I assume that my order got lost in his "system". I fully believe that if I hadn't continually chased him, I might never have got my stuff.I won't be rushing back to buy from this shop.

[Blueadventures]

I ordered a couple of items from the pilot shop of the forums here and it wasn't a pleasant experience. It took over two months, numerous unreturned phone calls and emails to get my stuff. In the end I did recieve the goods, but in the process got quite a few lame excuses from Ian ranging from him not having credit on his phone to tales of suppliers not supplying goods. When I finally did get my stuff two months after I ordered it, it came with an apology of sorts stating that he had ordered the goods from the supplier "more than two weeks ago". Quite clearly, it was some time after I placed the order, that he placed the order with the suppliers and I assume that my order got lost in his "system". I fully believe that if I hadn't continually chased him, I might never have got my stuff.I won't be rushing back to buy from this shop.

Twice now I've tried to get information about some aviation parts from this sites shop; but no replies; most recent days ago; but have now confirmed size and ordered and paid at a Gold Coast shop and having sent to a PO Box so hopefully will arrive next week. (Items - gel head set ear cushions and a wac and vtc chart; getting ready for when a flight might occur. Still have some things on my to do list.)

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[SDQDI]

I found for charts and ersa ect that getting them on the iPad digitally (ozrunways) was the cheapest option, and also IMO the best option. For a little annual subscription my maps and ersa are always up to date, no need to worry about ordering a new set of maps when the old ones hadn't worn out.

 

As for physical objects, I have no trouble getting things posted free to my door from china, India ect but have trouble with a few tradespeople in aus who never get back to me. (Not aviation related) they have parts on 'order' but they never get here. I guess they are busy enough serving other customers?

 

Loyalty is not rewarded so much these days and if you are loyal to a certain shop, trades person or supplier you will end up getting fleeced. Certainly not like days gone by where loyalty got you looked after, now it seems to be whoever whines the loudest gets the best attention!

 

Anyway as others have said, it pays to shop around for everything.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

I must be fair and say I have not tried the shop on here - Ian - but in my experience with Budget Pilot Supplies in Queensland is, as of today it's four days since I emailed the Budget Pilot Supplies and still no reply. Worse still it's now nearly three weeks since Budget Pilot Supplies supposedly mailed my order.

 

:faint:My business runs on the mail and courier delivery and in over 20 plus years we have never misplaced or totally lost a parcel in the Australian Post. So when advised by Budget Pilot Supplies I checked my Post Office I was told by them to check my supplier and their despatch.

 

Mmmm I'm still waiting for that reply from Budget Pilot Suplies and that's the reason I wrote the cost off and just reordered with Skylines Aviation.

 

As I said in the interim, I placed an order on the 12th of August with Skylines Aviation at Moorabbin and received it the next day in Express Post. Interestingly, the Express Post pack was .50c cheaper than Budget Pilot Supplies claim of $10 flat post.

 

Put bluntly it is simply poor customer service and obviously disappointing to not get the order and I reason that it would be a good idea for Budget owners to read their own mission statement in 'About Us' on their website and then live up to their rhetoric.

 

It's this web page that prompted me to start the Thread asking is there such a thing as budget supplies? Or do we just purchase from the better known supplies at possibly a higher cost knowing service is paramount to them..

 

By the way, I ordered the charts/maps to carry and I also use my iPad etc.. like most I love the iPad software and their customer service and constant upgrades. Now that's good customer service. I also have taken up the option to purchase our magazine in hard copy.

 

My thoughts and possibly generalizing in regard to RA Aus members are; - we are a big and growing group of enthusiasts whom in many cases are capable of doing more than the very basic of maintenance, repair and no doubt we are enthusiastic in purchasing parts, accessories and should be treated like any other Business customer..

 

Yes, sometimes those words Budget, Cheap and Discout may just be that..

 

I hope aircraft and supplies businesses don't see us as the secondary group they place their spare or surplus marketing and promotional cash with.

 

Safe flying..

 

 

[Geoff13]

Slightly of thread, but why would anyone think that buying from advertisers in the magazine would help RAAus. We have been told quite clearly recently that we pay the publisher to print our magazine. The publisher bills the advertisers direct and RAAus receives no beefit from advertising. You are simply supporting a publisher who bills two different groups for the same publication, you are not supporting the organisation.

 

I must say that I have had nothing but polite professional service from Ian and the Pilot Supplies shop. Lets not forget that Ian told us recently of a major crisis in his life that not only affected his ability to communicate electronically but also left him searching for accomodation at short notice. Having been there more than once I would be willing to cut him a bit of slack over the last few months. He provides us with a great forum which costs us nothing.

 

Well done and thank you Ian.

 

 

[coljones]

Slightly of thread, but why would anyone think that buying from advertisers in the magazine would help RAAus. We have been told quite clearly recently that we pay the publisher to print our magazine. The publisher bills the advertisers direct and RAAus receives no beefit from advertising. You are simply supporting a publisher who bills two different groups for the same publication, you are not supporting the organisation.I must say that I have had nothing but polite professional service from Ian and the Pilot Supplies shop. Lets not forget that Ian told us recently of a major crisis in his life that not only affected his ability to communicate electronically but also left him searching for accomodation at short notice. Having been there more than once I would be willing to cut him a bit of slack over the last few months. He provides us with a great forum which costs us nothing.

 

Well done and thank you Ian.

It all depends on your business model. The advertising pays for the editorial stuff, the pre-print material and layouts - just like the electronic copy. The $400,000 paid for the printing and distribution - $40 a year per head - what a bargain. The magazine was never losing money and depending on the funding model used - let's say $6 value a copy printed and posted - meant that RAA was making a cool $260,000 notional profit on the magazine each year. Of course scrapping the magazine meant that the magazine notional profit increased to $400,000. At least Honest John and Big Pete gave us some of our taxes back (too bad about the revenue base though). If we didn't have the advertisers that part of the revenue would go down, potentially requiring a subsidy from RAA which would cut into that notional $400,000 magazine profit.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Geoff

 

I'm referring to Budget Pilot Supplies in Queensland - from memory I think the principal there is Steve.

 

..I got so bogged down in the sites rhetoric on ' savings, cheaper than anyone else and other personal praise..

 

Sorry if there was any confusion with other similiar business names.

 

If we support advertisers in the magazine - I tell them where I saw their advertisement - I think they will continue to advertise there and ensure the quality and growth of the magazine. I'm not really up on how the magazine contributes back to RAAus as an organisation.

 

coljones above has explained it somewhat to me.

 

The RAAus profitability is the subject of another Thread/s and I'm just starting to understand that..

 

Safe flying guys...

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

coljones

 

Yes makes sense as to the need to continue with hard copy - paper - magazines.

 

Mmm web based is an addition income..

 

Cheers

 

 

[Yenn]

It is Australias biggest growth industry. Poor retail service. No matter what you want it is hard to get. I have had a couple of trips to my nearest city looking for materials. Shell oil, I couldn't get at the airport, where I have bought before. They were in a board meeting. I had to go to the local LAME and he sold me some from his bulk store. Cleaned some old bottles, marked themwith the ontents name and charged me what I think was less than from the airport.

 

Looking to rebuild my Corby tailwheel I went to the bearing supplier who sold me the Nylon I used to make the original wheel 13 years ago. Not really inteested in supplying less than a full length at $99. When i bought the original, they were happy to cut to length and cahrge accordingly.

 

One supplier I have had good dealings with is Suncoast Airparts.

 

 

[Yenn]

It is Australias biggest growth industry. Poor retail service. No matter what you want it is hard to get. I have had a couple of trips to my nearest city looking for materials. Shell oil, I couldn't get at the airport, where I have bought before. They were in a board meeting. I had to go to the local LAME and he sold me some from his bulk store. Cleaned some old bottles, marked themwith the ontents name and charged me what I think was less than from the airport.

 

Looking to rebuild my Corby tailwheel I went to the bearing supplier who sold me the Nylon I used to make the original wheel 13 years ago. Not really inteested in supplying less than a full length at $99. When i bought the original, they were happy to cut to length and cahrge accordingly.

 

One supplier I have had good dealings with is Suncoast Airparts.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have purchased a lot of items via ebay. The service is always excellent with great communication especially with vendors from China. Less so with local vendors. Dealing direct on line with many Australian vendors is usually met with complete silence. They don't acknowledge the order or tell you when it has been sent unless you pester them & sometimes even that doesn't work. Clear prop is a notable exception though.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have purchased a lot of items via ebay. The service is always excellent with great communication especially with vendors from China. Less so with local vendors. Dealing direct on line with many Australian vendors is usually met with complete silence. They don't acknowledge the order or tell you when it has been sent unless you pester them & sometimes even that doesn't work. Clear prop is a notable exception though.

 

 

[WayneL]

When choosing which type of delivery, I will always choose Express Mail or Registered Mail because it is trackable, never accept standard non trackable post.

 

I wish the American web sites were more overseas buyer friendly at the checkout with delivery options and a reasonable freight price. Aircraft Spruce has such a great range of stuff and a great web site for ordering but no real viable delivery options for Australia at the checkout. I emailed them to complain and was told to list the items I wanted in an email to them and they would send a proforma invoice to me with the right freight cost (way cheaper then checkout one). Still took 2 weeks and many emails for them to get it right (the proforma invoice order).

 

I have ordered some things from the UK and parts of Europe without any problems, Freight was cheaper than from the States but items are usually dearer.

 

If I can get it from Asia, this is my preferred choice for price and cheapest freight cost. Vendors are keen to please customers, they know negative feedback hurts their business.

 

I have obtained a number of items through Ian on his Clear prop/Pilot store on this site and have not had any issues at all.

 

Wayne

 

 

[WayneL]

When choosing which type of delivery, I will always choose Express Mail or Registered Mail because it is trackable, never accept standard non trackable post.

 

I wish the American web sites were more overseas buyer friendly at the checkout with delivery options and a reasonable freight price. Aircraft Spruce has such a great range of stuff and a great web site for ordering but no real viable delivery options for Australia at the checkout. I emailed them to complain and was told to list the items I wanted in an email to them and they would send a proforma invoice to me with the right freight cost (way cheaper then checkout one). Still took 2 weeks and many emails for them to get it right (the proforma invoice order).

 

I have ordered some things from the UK and parts of Europe without any problems, Freight was cheaper than from the States but items are usually dearer.

 

If I can get it from Asia, this is my preferred choice for price and cheapest freight cost. Vendors are keen to please customers, they know negative feedback hurts their business.

 

I have obtained a number of items through Ian on his Clear prop/Pilot store on this site and have not had any issues at all.

 

Wayne

 

 

[Downunder]

Bernie, If you haven't been refunded there are ways of getting your money back.

 

Especially if you paid via CC or paypal.

 

 

[Downunder]

Bernie, If you haven't been refunded there are ways of getting your money back.

 

Especially if you paid via CC or paypal.