square or oval?

[facthunter]

There's no reason for a biggie to do really large circuits , although their minimum speeds are double our normal ones, so they are going to overhaul us on final .They mostly do straight ins (I hope) as that reduces the time of "mingling"

 

With my own plane or hire, I keep them as small as possible to save the cost, but I wouldn't cut in on anyone that I could recognise as still being in the circuit.

 

A circuit for us has 4 legs as far as I'm concerned, though in my life I would have done most oval form . It's not hard to change.. It's harder to do a good well judged circling approach in my opinion You are also focusing on the end of the runway all the time so you aren't looking around as much, so better at controlled airports. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

There's no reason for a biggie to do really large circuits , although their minimum speeds are double our normal ones, so they are going to overhaul us on final .They mostly do straight ins (I hope) as that reduces the time of "mingling"

 

With my own plane or hire, I keep them as small as possible to save the cost, but I wouldn't cut in on anyone that I could recognise as still being in the circuit.

 

A circuit for us has 4 legs as far as I'm concerned, though in my life I would have done most oval form . It's not hard to change.. It's harder to do a good well judged circling approach in my opinion You are also focusing on the end of the runway all the time so you aren't looking around as much, so better at controlled airports. Nev

 

 

[Ada Elle]

If you join downwind at standard circuit height of 1000ft, keeping parallel and at Approx 45 deg. to runway then reduce power just prior to the 90deg turn onto base, another 90deg turn onto final Establishing a stabilised approach and all going well you should pull off a landing.

How do I cope with an engine failure on final? outlanding?

 

I like divebombing the runway but my CFI doesn't like what it does to Jabiru engines.

 

 

[Ada Elle]

If you join downwind at standard circuit height of 1000ft, keeping parallel and at Approx 45 deg. to runway then reduce power just prior to the 90deg turn onto base, another 90deg turn onto final Establishing a stabilised approach and all going well you should pull off a landing.

How do I cope with an engine failure on final? outlanding?

 

I like divebombing the runway but my CFI doesn't like what it does to Jabiru engines.

 

 

[Maritime_Ev]

I wouldn't imagine the local tower (or any tower) would be too happy with oval circuits; but I did change my forced landing procedure from rectangular 'high key/low key' to circular 'constant angle', I find that it gets me more acurately in position.

 

A little aside from this (since militairy flying was brought up) is it alowed to do a 'initial and pitch' arrival in Australia? You know, for when I get myself that cheapo MIG.

 

 

[Maritime_Ev]

I wouldn't imagine the local tower (or any tower) would be too happy with oval circuits; but I did change my forced landing procedure from rectangular 'high key/low key' to circular 'constant angle', I find that it gets me more acurately in position.

 

A little aside from this (since militairy flying was brought up) is it alowed to do a 'initial and pitch' arrival in Australia? You know, for when I get myself that cheapo MIG.

 

 

[frank marriott]

A little aside from this (since militairy flying was brought up) is it alowed to do a 'initial and pitch' arrival in Australia? You know, for when I get myself that cheapo MIG.

 

No problem just advise the tower of your intentions. We used to do it often with 3 ship formation arrivals in GA aircraft for effect (and fun) - although I should include that it was at Townsville which is RAAF controlled so nothing new to them (also we were instructed by an exmilitary instructor on correct procedure)

 

OCTA I guess you would need a private strip with no other traffic?

 

 

[frank marriott]

A little aside from this (since militairy flying was brought up) is it alowed to do a 'initial and pitch' arrival in Australia? You know, for when I get myself that cheapo MIG.

 

No problem just advise the tower of your intentions. We used to do it often with 3 ship formation arrivals in GA aircraft for effect (and fun) - although I should include that it was at Townsville which is RAAF controlled so nothing new to them (also we were instructed by an exmilitary instructor on correct procedure)

 

OCTA I guess you would need a private strip with no other traffic?

 

 

[nong]

Lots of military initial and pitch mixing it with civvy rectangles and RPT straight ins at Forest Hill recently. Excellent sport! OCTA

 

 

[nong]

Lots of military initial and pitch mixing it with civvy rectangles and RPT straight ins at Forest Hill recently. Excellent sport! OCTA

 

 

[ayavner]

what's 'initial and pitch' mean?

 

 

[ayavner]

what's 'initial and pitch' mean?

 

 

[Ada Elle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_and_break

[Ada Elle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_and_break

[poteroo]

Rectangular circuits needn't be too wide if you continue the upwind climb to 700-750 ft agl before turning crosswind. This shortens the crosswind leg and allows for an earlier turn downwind. With high wing aircraft - we teach keeping the strip roughly 'half-way' up the strut. With low wings - perhaps at the flap/aileron location?

 

We graduate pilots onto a 'racecourse' pattern for 500ft agl circuits as a way of training them to keep the strip,(or intended landing area), in sight in marginal visibility weather,(should this be needed in their future flying). The climbing turn is initiated at 300ft agl and the 180 turn completed as the aircraft is rolled out on downwind. The approach is commenced from abeam the threshold by slowing the aircraft to Vfe + beginning a descending turn toward the threshold - which will remain in full view. Full flap is applied during the descending turn and the aircraft rolled level by 200 ft agl. It's also prudent to slow the aircraft considerably the closer to the strip you fly, and to reduce your IAS with flap extended so that you make a minimum radius turn onto final. The nose of the aircraft needs to be kept down, and power adjusted, so that it isn't nearing a stall risk. In the low level course, these circuits can be taught down to 150-200ft agl with pilots who have a good grip on their aircrafts' handling.

 

We do teach a 'tactical overhead break' in RV's - starting with echelon right, using 2 sec intervals. The use of a 3 or 5nm 'initial' tends to require a few minutes and sometimes this can't be done due CTAF traffic. Luckily, at our home airport, we have runways wide enough for landing elements,(pairs), in formation - so we usually 'spread' the formation into a number of 'line astern' elements on entering the 1st circuit leg. The overhead breaks only look great if you are in similar aircraft, moving fast, and pull a positive 45 aob from the upwind leg.

 

happy days,

 

 

[poteroo]

Rectangular circuits needn't be too wide if you continue the upwind climb to 700-750 ft agl before turning crosswind. This shortens the crosswind leg and allows for an earlier turn downwind. With high wing aircraft - we teach keeping the strip roughly 'half-way' up the strut. With low wings - perhaps at the flap/aileron location?

 

We graduate pilots onto a 'racecourse' pattern for 500ft agl circuits as a way of training them to keep the strip,(or intended landing area), in sight in marginal visibility weather,(should this be needed in their future flying). The climbing turn is initiated at 300ft agl and the 180 turn completed as the aircraft is rolled out on downwind. The approach is commenced from abeam the threshold by slowing the aircraft to Vfe + beginning a descending turn toward the threshold - which will remain in full view. Full flap is applied during the descending turn and the aircraft rolled level by 200 ft agl. It's also prudent to slow the aircraft considerably the closer to the strip you fly, and to reduce your IAS with flap extended so that you make a minimum radius turn onto final. The nose of the aircraft needs to be kept down, and power adjusted, so that it isn't nearing a stall risk. In the low level course, these circuits can be taught down to 150-200ft agl with pilots who have a good grip on their aircrafts' handling.

 

We do teach a 'tactical overhead break' in RV's - starting with echelon right, using 2 sec intervals. The use of a 3 or 5nm 'initial' tends to require a few minutes and sometimes this can't be done due CTAF traffic. Luckily, at our home airport, we have runways wide enough for landing elements,(pairs), in formation - so we usually 'spread' the formation into a number of 'line astern' elements on entering the 1st circuit leg. The overhead breaks only look great if you are in similar aircraft, moving fast, and pull a positive 45 aob from the upwind leg.

 

happy days,

 

 

[pylon500]

An often forgotten part of doing circuits, is to be within gliding distance of the strip for as much time as possible (flying ultralights that is), so when I see people on downwind two or three miles out, I'm often tempted to call. 'You've just had an engine failure, were are you going to land?'

 

Bit silly to be looking around picking paddocks when you just took off from a serviceable runway !!?

 

I've been in circuit in a Lightwing following Jabiru's around, and with both of us on downwind you get the impression the jabiru is leaving the circuit as they are so far away.

 

I have called and asked 'Do you have a flightplan for that circuit?'

 

 

[pylon500]

An often forgotten part of doing circuits, is to be within gliding distance of the strip for as much time as possible (flying ultralights that is), so when I see people on downwind two or three miles out, I'm often tempted to call. 'You've just had an engine failure, were are you going to land?'

 

Bit silly to be looking around picking paddocks when you just took off from a serviceable runway !!?

 

I've been in circuit in a Lightwing following Jabiru's around, and with both of us on downwind you get the impression the jabiru is leaving the circuit as they are so far away.

 

I have called and asked 'Do you have a flightplan for that circuit?'

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Can glide almost 3nm from 1000'! Actually have problems burning off energy coming from downwind... like having lots of slip!

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Can glide almost 3nm from 1000'! Actually have problems burning off energy coming from downwind... like having lots of slip!

 

 

[dazza 38]

It would be embarrasing if somebody was on downwind and couldn't make the strip because the were too far away from the strip to make it.

 

 

[dazza 38]

It would be embarrasing if somebody was on downwind and couldn't make the strip because the were too far away from the strip to make it.

 

 

[facthunter]

You don't want to over emphasise being able to make the strip. I think the ingraining of that idea is responsible for a few unfortunate turn backs, that go bad (as most do). If you are flying normally you will be away from an aerodrome about 98% of the time, and I also in good conscience wouldn't recommend power off approaches in gusty conditions. An idling motor isn't the optimum to do a go around from and most motors fail under high power. I know it's an old U/L tradition. to have the strip available but it isn't possible for some of the time. I rarely fly over what I can't land on and some don't worry about that, which I think they should.. A good U/L strip doesn't have wall to wall houses around it. (Or a line of trees at the far end you just make on a good cool day.) There may well be other options in the circuit for a satisfactory alternative. The most likely engine fail is on take-off by a long shot and that's the one place you might not be able to make the runway. A wise operator would consider the engine fail situation before taking of from any place. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

You don't want to over emphasise being able to make the strip. I think the ingraining of that idea is responsible for a few unfortunate turn backs, that go bad (as most do). If you are flying normally you will be away from an aerodrome about 98% of the time, and I also in good conscience wouldn't recommend power off approaches in gusty conditions. An idling motor isn't the optimum to do a go around from and most motors fail under high power. I know it's an old U/L tradition. to have the strip available but it isn't possible for some of the time. I rarely fly over what I can't land on and some don't worry about that, which I think they should.. A good U/L strip doesn't have wall to wall houses around it. (Or a line of trees at the far end you just make on a good cool day.) There may well be other options in the circuit for a satisfactory alternative. The most likely engine fail is on take-off by a long shot and that's the one place you might not be able to make the runway. A wise operator would consider the engine fail situation before taking of from any place. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

I know the most likely place for an engine failure is on take off, but there are an awful lot of crash landings just short of the threshold. Personally I always like to be high and using idle power, but there is one drawback to that condition, it seems to promote engine failure, due to plug fouling. I tend to run a bit rich and that is a good invitation to plug fouling. A lot easier to control with a lycoming with mixture control than something with a Bing carby.