Latest Jabiru 2200 - reliability

[derekliston]

"it was a Rotax which killed him"; There are several likely scenarios for his death, but none have been released by any of the responsible people.If you have evidence that they don't, then you have an obligation to provide it to them.

Thanks for that turbo planner. Poor phraseology I agree. I should have said perhaps, the engine on the plane in which he died was not a Jabiru! I have no idea what the cause of the crash was, my point merely was that aviation can kill you. Doesn't matter whatever make of aeroplane or engine, we all need to be aware of that always!

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The Adelaide Soaring club at Gawler have just got a new Jabiru with the new engine. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

Over the last 15 years, there have been thousands of hours run up here in Jabirus with very few engine problems. I don't mean for this to sound like an advert, but other engines ( Subaru, Revmaster, Rotax) have also had problems and they are not used in training like the Jabiru.

 

I'm hopeful that the new Jab engine will prove to be very reliable, so I can buy one when the time comes.

 

 

[SDQDI]

Not meaning to be nit picky but rotax engines are known to be used in training.

 

Having said that I too hope that this latest engine is a winner, not particularly for jabs sake but for the sake of us rec flyers as a whole!

 

 

[jetjr]

Yep there sure is a lot riding on the success of this round of upgrades

 

Everyone hopes its successful, history says major changes take a while for them to sort out.

 

Its still unkown why aome locations have great run with Jabirus and others the opposite

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Sorry you Rotax guys. I only meant that the training operation around here used Jabirus.

 

 

[ave8rr]

The Adelaide Soaring club at Gawler have just got a new Jabiru with the new engine. It will be interesting to see how it goes.Over the last 15 years, there have been thousands of hours run up here in Jabirus with very few engine problems. I don't mean for this to sound like an advert, but other engines ( Subaru, Revmaster, Rotax) have also had problems and they are not used in training like the Jabiru.

I'm hopeful that the new Jab engine will prove to be very reliable, so I can buy one when the time comes.

I assume the new Jab engine now has CASA Certification to be able to be used for training?

 

 

[Oscar]

CASA plays no part in this matter.

 

Since the advent of the ASTM 'self-certified' regime for LSA-class aircraft, it is up to the manufacturer to Certify that the aircraft and its components meet the appropriate ASTM standards. The last Jab. engine (as far as I am aware) to be 'Certificated' was the Jab 2200C; no Jab. 3300 engine and all later 2200 engines are self-certified by Jabiru.

 

That does not mean that the ASTM certifying regime is in any way deficient vs. a 'Certificated' engine - in fact, the ASTM tests are extremely similar and in some regards slightly more demanding than those for 'Certificating'. However, for an engine to be 'Certificated' by an ICAO-recognised national Airworthiness Authority to an international standard, requires that the testing be observed (and signed-off) by the national Airworthiness Authority.

 

To be 'Certificated' means that the engine (in this case) is issued a 'Certificate' by the national Airworthiness Authority. By comparison, to be 'Certified' means that the manufacturer declares the engine to comply with the ASTM standard - and no manufacturer of decent repute would do that without having the testing regime results fully documented.

 

So in short: for any J160 other than a 'C' model, any J170 ( I think), any J120, any J230x, used for training or hire, 'a Certificated' engine is not required - they are 'Certified' aircraft and a 'Certified' engine is what is required.

 

 

[jetjr]

Somewhere I read the new engine is accepted as replacement for certified models

 

No idea how, its either an all new engine or its not, this seems like they are having a bet either way

 

In reality certificated owners would be in deep trouble were this not the case as there are no longer even parts made under correct production certificate anymore

 

 

[Oscar]

CORRECTION!. The 2200 J model was Certificated.

 

2200J TCDS.pdf

 

2200J TCDS.pdf

 

2200J TCDS.pdf

[jetjr]

Certification plays a big part in stagnating development

 

 

[Brett]

If only Toyota or Hyundai would bring out an aviation engine. They could probably design one by smoko. Yes..... I know the cost.... the low numbers sold.... but just imagine.

 

 

[Riley]

It was mentioned round the coffee table at the airstrip this morning that it was Jabiru who bought Camit plant and equipment at the clearing auction. Having been out of the country for six weeks recently, have I missed something or does someone have an authoritive rebuttal? Massively curious.

 

 

[ave8rr]

It was mentioned round the coffee table at the airstrip this morning that it was Jabiru who bought Camit plant and equipment at the clearing auction. Having been out of the country for six weeks recently, have I missed something or does someone have an authoritive rebuttal? Massively curious.

Jabiru bought only a few bits and pieces through the auction process. No machining equipment.

 

 

[SDQDI]

I wasn't aware that Camit got out of making Jab motors?

It happened in October last year.

 

Camit closing

 

 

[Camel]

You live in Perth, that's about as far away as you can get from this country, so yes yo have been out of the country for a while:oh yeah: I wasn't aware that Camit got out of making Jab motors?

Mr Capt Wally ! You try to speak as an authority ! You don't realise how uninformed you appear to me ! I think Riley is better informed than you are ! What does where he live have anything to do with anything ! The whole world knows about what happened to Camit except you apparently !

 

 

[stevek]

If not Hyundai what about Honda, they already make a 1800cc water cooled fuel injected flat 6 cylinder for the Goldwing range

 

 

[Camel]

It was tongue in cheek, you angry man!

Don't call me an angry man you clown !

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There are Subaru powered aircraft around. One did a forced landing around here a couple of years ago. They don't come with dual ignitions and that may have been the problem, so a purpose-designed thing would be better.

 

The main problems are the speed, with aircraft wanting a slow crank speed, and crankshaft strength, where auto does not need to carry a prop load. So most auto conversions need a reduction setup, which adds a whole lot of problems.

 

In the meantime there are quite a few auto components in the Jab engine.

 

 

[Riley]

Jabiru bought only a few bits and pieces through the auction process. No machining equipment.

Thanks for the clarification. This snippet of misinformation emanated from a person of self-appointed expertise and great knowledge in all things so I probably should have waived it off but- as stated, I was out of Perth for six weeks and that's really 'out of touch'!

 

 

[Oscar]

In the meantime there are quite a few auto components in the Jab engine.

The pistons, gudgeon pins and circlips (originally, ACL-produced Commodore V6 pistons, but for years now, Jab. have sourced theirs from China - not without problems) and the main bearings - ironically, Subaru spec. The oil-pump is a Borg-Warner 35 (I think) auto gear-box gear-pump pair, in a bespoke housing. I'm not sure of the valves and springs origin, but probably - knowing Rod - also originally auto-parts sourced. VDO senders and (mostly) gauges with hand-painted limits on the faces; the engine mount rubbers are Falcon XM-XP tie-rod ends. Standard auto oil filter, get them from Supercheap. The starter motor is a Toyota Corolla Nippondenso body with a bespoke nose.

 

The Bing carby is basically a motorcycle part - not car part - used by BMW on their boxer twins. Though, of course, Rotax also use them..

 

Rod used OTS parts where they were the best choice available and manufactured - via CAMit - the remainder of the engine to optimise weight/performance. He didn't get ALL the bits completely right, which compromised CAMit in their 'upgraded' version to be 'backwards-compatible', but the Jab. engine remains a remarkably successful small-volume production aero-engine in terms of its weight/performance.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Doubt I would want Hyundai to get involved, Toyota yes, oh what a feeling:-):-)

Nothing wrong with Hyundai.

 

My choice would be Yamaha, who do a lot of engine development for Toyota anyway (and on some Toyota engines the Yamaha triple piano tuning forks can be found).

 

 

[Guernsey]

Nothing wrong with Hyundai.My choice would be Yamaha, who do a lot of engine development for Toyota anyway (and on some Toyota engines the Yamaha triple piano tuning forks can be found).

Thanks for that, I'll make a Note of it.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thanks for that, I'll make a Note of it.Alan.

...sounds you two blokes are in accord on that.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

...sounds you two blokes are in accord on that.

I don't ride in Hondas.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I ride a Yamaha ag bike on the farm. It is an air-cooled 4 stroke, like the Jab engine, but the airflow over the engine is nowhere near as good. Yet is has shown no overheating problems.

 

And it doesn't run on avgas or need aeroshell oil.

 

Why is this so? And why does it just use normal oil and not need special air-cooled engine oil?