Latest Jabiru 2200 - reliability

[coljones]

Your son answered you plain & simple, too small & too slow.A few years ago the ATSB did a study on light A/C engine failures, Jab motors where at the top of the list for failures . It's personal choice, we do have a choice. It's like SE flying at night in IMC, not for this black duck !:-)

As for buying Aussie? Well that has little to do with it. There wouldn't be a single Aussie who hasn't purchased an OS product when there was an Aussie alternative.

That wasn't a study. More like an attempt at a smear. There was no real attempt to relate the figures back to believable rates of failure and, at the end of the day, seemed to be an an attempt to save the reputation of former and ongoing CASA employees.

 

 

[Oscar]

The 'purpose' as you put it is for comparison, after all failures of any kind can only be assessed as possibly problematic if they are compared to another engine of similar design, no point in burying yr head in the sand about fact, I didn't conduct the ATSB report on engine failures listing Jab motors to be the highest I just happen to make my own decisions based on that report not to fly in one. It's just an opinion which we are all entitled to!

Absolutely we are all entitled to an opinion. I happen to have an opinion, that I do not trust the Rotax crankshaft manufacture methodology. However, I recognise that many, many motor-mowers have pressed crankshafts and almost none of them end up in flaming crashes from on high. Call me a worrier.

 

But, I wonder in the light of you comment quoted above, how you would be able to 'fly in one' Jabiru engine. You must be a very compact person with amazing physical characteristics to be able to fit into a Jabiru engine.

 

Perhaps, I suspect, you actually mean 'fly in a Jabiru aircraft'?

 

If that is the subtext of your post, you might like to examine the statistics - in which you place great faith, evidently - for fatalities/injury in Jabiru aircraft. I frankly could not be arsed to reproduce those for your edification because I have no faith that it would in any way modify your expressed opinion.

 

I think we all get the intent of your post, which is: 'I don't trust Jabirus.' As a supporter of Jabiru, I frankly could not give a flying intercontinental fur-lined f$ck if you refuse to set your gluteous maximus in any Jabiru. One dissenter from a sample of over 1500 owners world-wide is so insignificant as to be of the same importance as a wart on the backside of an elephant.

 

 

[facthunter]

As they say you, are entitled to your own beliefs but not your own FACTS. THAT "Study" was a poor attempt after the act, to justify rushing in to fix something they panicked into reacting to without actually knowing what was the extent or real nature of the problem they had effectively grounded Jabiru aircraft for, or the standard they were requiring aircraft engines with jabiru's name on them to meet.. A dark day indeed for owners and schools using them as well as sinking CAMit completely. No one has been prosecuted and no crimes were uncovered. Now there's no parts for various versions of the engine. CASA's reputation continues to go down the gurgler, and it's regarded by most of the GA industry as an ongoing disaster. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Further to Facthunters comments above, you could also look at the USA figures, which had Jabiru way up in the safety if flight, with I think only the C172 having a better record. That was out of place anyway, because the study in the USA was for LSA aircraft and only put the Cessna in as a sort of yardstick. At least we know now that Capt Wally will not by sullying the seats of my Jab engined Starlet. I wonder if he could fly it anyway.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's quite a few pilots about who wouldn't fly your (or any other) Starlet well, Yenn. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

It wasn't meant to be humorous. It's a challenge many wouldn't take on though. The small Jab engine makes a good combination. Better than the original VW. Nev

 

 

[Camel]

As they say you, are entitled to your own beliefs but not your own FACTS. THAT "Study" was a poor attempt after the act, to justify rushing in to fix something they panicked into reacting to without actually knowing what was the extent or real nature of the problem they had effectively grounded Jabiru aircraft for, or the standard they were requiring aircraft engines with jabiru's name on them to meet.. A dark day indeed for owners and schools using them as well as sinking CAMit completely. No one has been prosecuted and no crimes were uncovered. Now there's no parts for various versions of the engine. CASA's reputation continues to go down the gurgler, and it's regarded by most of the GA industry as an ongoing disaster. Nev

The culprits for this disgraceful behaviour should have been dealt with ! but they are still there and have gotten away with it and still able to do more damage ! Australia is not the lucky country any more ! Remember the bomerang logo "Made in Australia" seen it lately ? , Jabiru WAS a very successful Australian aviation business !

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Whats hard to fly about a Corby Starlet? I can see its a short-fuse taildragger so it would be real easy to bugger up the landing, is this the thing?

 

 

[Keith Page]

Your son answered you plain & simple, too small & too slow.A few years ago the ATSB did a study on light A/C engine failures, Jab motors where at the top of the list for failures . It's personal choice, we do have a choice. It's like SE flying at night in IMC, not for this black duck !:-)

As for buying Aussie? Well that has little to do with it. There wouldn't be a single Aussie who hasn't purchased an OS product when there was an Aussie alternative.

You have me lost there Wally.. I have 230 Jab -- cruise 120 knot -- fuel burn 20 litres an hour. I do enjoy discussing these facts with the Cessna brigade.

 

What is the fuel burn of the Lancair? I know I have to consider fuel usage for economic reasons.

 

KP.

 

 

[frank marriott]

You have me lost there Wally.. I have 230 Jab -- cruise 120 knot -- fuel burn 20 litres an hour. I do enjoy discussing these facts with the Cessna brigade.What is the fuel burn of the Lancair? I know I have to consider fuel usage for economic reasons.

KP.

Keith Wally has been given a 3 month holiday from here - so don't wait for a reply.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

But seems to still be posting.

 

Edit...no, I misread the post time.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Keith Wally has been given a 3 month holiday from here - so don't wait for a reply.

Thank you Frank, he will be fat and shiny he comes back from that holiday.

KP.

 

 

[Camel]

So sad ! Only lasted one day I think from last spell !

 

 

[Nightmare]

Again???!!!

 

Jabirus are awesome! Like any machine, treat them well, service them how they are meant to be serviced and they will look after you.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

New Jab engine at 25 hours and running fine. I really like the feel when you turn it over , especially when its hot.

 

 

[blueline]

I don't often post on here but .....

 

our J160 is now on its 2nd engine.

 

First one made it to 2,000 hours (with the 1,000 hour top overhaul).

 

The current engine is just coming up on 1,000 hours and is running perfectly.

 

Haven't had any problems beyond regular maintenance items.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Latest news on the new alloy engine at Gawler...

 

The factory rang to say they had identified a defect in the cylinders, there was a sharp corner which needed rounding out and they would be sending replacement cylinders for free. Remember we have cylinders serial numbers 1 to 4, and were willingly part of the test process.

 

Well the very next day, at about 150 hours, the engine started running rough and there was a crack just as predicted.

 

It's all fixed and back flying now.

 

We have had plenty of cracks in the Lycomings on our tugs, while the softer alloy of the old Jabiru heads distorted but didn't crack.

 

So we reset the clock and start counting hours again on the new engine. I wish this hadn't happened, but I was impressed how the factory handled it all.

 

 

[jetjr]

Where was crackng? Cylinder or head?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The new engines have the cylinder and head all in one. Yes, no head bolts to torque. No gasket or join of any sort to leak.

 

The whole thing is a machined casting from an aluminium alloy. So the expansion of the cylinder matches that of the piston and it doesn't get tight when hot.

 

 

[jetjr]

Yeah but they are still two bits, head is screwed onto barrel which is why they can get away with 4 head bolts

 

 

[Oscar]

Bruce, it is my understanding that the heads are screwed on - a la Lycoming, Continental, all (I think) the big air-cooled radials etc. I believe ( but could well be wrong here, those engines are way outside my experience) that that can sometimes be a 'one-shot' process i.e. mated for life.

 

Edit: jj has confirmed my belief, while I was writing it up!

 

I am intrigued: did Jabiru send Gawler just replacement barrels or complete 'jugs' - pots plus heads, ready assembled?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

gosh guys, you know more than me... I'll have a better look and get back to you both.

 

 

[jetjr]

They are a one time fitment, or at least factory job

 

Hot and cold, accurately screwed together for life

 

Whilst having some advantages it looses the nice servicability of the old system. Id expect more expensive fixes to simple problems.

 

It means any head or valve problem means removing throughbolts and cylinder and all the work this requires

 

Let alone potential problems with case tension

 

 

[Oscar]

They are a one time fitment, or at least factory jobHot and cold, accurately screwed together for life

Whilst having some advantages it looses the nice servicability of the old system. Id expect more expensive fixes to simple problems.

 

It means any head or valve problem means removing throughbolts and cylinder and all the work this requires

 

Let alone potential problems with case tension

jj - I concur entirely. I want to see the Gen 4 succeed, for the sake of all Jab. owners, since we no longer have the alternative of a CAMit engine. Bruce's original post #187 says to me that Jabiru are really pulling out the stops so this is the result.

 

What all we Jab. owners need, is good feedback on experience of the Gen. 4 engine. NOT speculation, or cant.

 

 

[quentas]

My 2c on jab engines. Replace exhaust valves every 300-400 hours max and ensure you replace your flywheel bolts. Those two items alone will save you a lot of grief.