ADSB introduction

[Bigglesworth]

I just noticed something on the RAA site about an new technology that might be mandated, I don't have the time to look into this fully, so does anyone know in simple terms what this means for us, and what to do about it.

 

Just to start the ball rolling on what might be an important issue.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Very quickly:

 

ADSB takes your position from a GPS and your height from a Xponder and sends them in a format that can be read by other a/c and by ATC. It comes as a broadcast only or a broadcast and receive.

 

Problem is it needs a Mode S Xponder from memory and if you have a receiver unit then you need a display capability.

 

It will probably replace SSR eventually and that's why Airservices are keen on it - capital cost to them goes down and the burden on the user goes up.

 

Having said that I think it's a good technology. Recently the International Maritime Organisation has mandated AIS - the marine equivalent to ADSB - for all commercial ships.

 

Just to add interest there are two competing ADSB "Standards". One appears likely to be implemented by Australia, Europe and most of the rest of the world and, you guessed it, the other appears likely to be implemented by the US.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[John Brandon]

This is a very important issue for existing and future aircraft owners.

 

There has been a notice on the RA-Aus notice board since August 24 informing members of the JCP issued by DOTARS with a response date of October 31. The short summary is that if you wish to fly your recreational aircraft in Class E or Class G above 5000 feet or at a CTAF® after 2012/2014 then it may cost you somewhere between $5000 to $10000 for the privilege. Read the notice and make your response by 31/10. I mentioned this in another thread a few weeks ago.

 

The RA-Aus view is that aircraft operating in Class G at any altitude should not be required to install ADS-B transmitters.

 

There is a document I wrote in 2004 which is relevant, see www.raa.asn.au/navigation/adsb.html

 

John Brandon

 

 

[Matt]

There's an article in the latest CASA Flight Safety magazine with all the latest on ADS-B and it's introduction as well as the proposals around the funding of ADS-B out transponders for non-commercial aircraft - link here http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2007/oct/25-27.pdf

 

I'm confused by Mike's comments regarding the 'burden on the user' - as per most of the press regarding impact on non-commercial aircraft operators, the savings Airservices will make from not having to continue to operate and maintain the current (ageing) radar system will be used to fund the ADS-B out equipment (proposed at $10,000) for non-commercial operators. I don't see this as any greater burden than any of the other mandated safety equipment required for flight operations.

 

I also understand that as with SSR transponders now, ADS-B transponders won't be mandatory for all aircraft, only those intending to operate in controlled airspace.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Hi All,

 

The big one that concerns most of us recreational flyers is that from some date in late June 2014 it is proposed that all VFR aircraft must also operate ADSB/OUT in any situation where they are currently required to use a radio.

 

On friday I have sent my response indicating that I object to the mandate requiring ADSB for G-Class airspace >5000ft and at CTAF®'s and that I'm only ok with it being required at Non-CTA RPT airports if the RPT's operate ADSB/IN.

 

Rgds,

 

Glen

 

 

[JohnMcK]

ADS-B

 

 

 

 

 

Automatic Dependent Surveillance – Broadcast

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CASA are pushing ahead with ADS-B (a type of upmarket version of Flarm used by gliders and some ultralights at mixed airfields) This, in its current form, I believe, will be VERY BAD news for us. By 2012 all aircraft entering CTA will be required to have ADS-B fitted, and by 2014 all aircraft in CTAF® will require ADS-B.

 

CASA policy is to make all aerodromes that have a visit from one or more 10 seat aircraft per month a CTAF®. So starting 2014 if you want to go into or through a CTAF® you must have ADS-B, and by then most of the airfields we currently fly at or near or through will be CTAF®

 

The “estimated” cost of these units is $10,000 to $15,000 plus instillation?. They can only be repaired by a CASA approved Radio Tec. They will also need to be serviced every two years by an approved Tec. Most of us can’t fly our aircraft into Brisbane or some other major center for a service, So if you can’t put your plane on a trailer, think of what the call out fee might be.

 

There are suggestions that the government will cover the costs for the initial instillation for currently registered aircraft but not for any new aircraft in the future. But even if we get a “free” unit, the upkeep could "bankrupt" many of us. We will also sell out all our future members of RA-Aus , or if you belong to AOPA or SAAA etc, your future members, if we accept this in its current form. Also no one seems to know how big or how heavy these aviation units are or what their power consumption will be. There will be exemptions for aircraft with low battery capacity or no alternator, plus other undefined aviation uses. You could have airspace full of, say, gliders, hang gliders, paragliders etc but banned to ultralights. If so what is the point of having them compulsory outside of CTR.

 

Also, as I read the new regulations, If you don't have ATSB you won't be able to fly above 5,000 ft regardless of the terrain.

 

My personal view is we need to lobby to at least stop them from being compulsory in CTAF®, and below 10,000 ft. In the marine field this system is called AIS (no height requirement) and has been in operation for some time, and I guess is where the Aviation idea came from. This is now mandated for commercial shipping but you can buy pleasure craft versions of AIS for under $1000 which use is voluntary. Also non AIS equipped pleasure craft are not excluded from shipping lanes where AIS is compulsory for commercial shipping. Eg The narrow shipping lane up Cape York Peninsular.

 

Also if any of you people out there have a "thing" about your personal privacy in sporting or pleasure pursuits, be advised that every single move you make in your aircraft fitted with ADSB, from key on to key off, will be tracked and logged by the government agencies. (track, height, time, bearing, landings etc). If your IQ is greater than 10 you can work out future possible ramifications of this.

 

The military have rejected their compulsory instillation for now. My personal view is we should do the same under the current proposals.

 

John McK (wearing my personal and RA-Aus board hat on this one)

 

 

[John Brandon]

Matt wrote:

 

"I'm confused by Mike's comments regarding the 'burden on the user' - as per most of the press regarding impact on non-commercial aircraft operators, the savings Airservices will make from not having to continue to operate and maintain the current (ageing) radar system will be used to fund the ADS-B out equipment (proposed at $10,000) for non-commercial operators. I don't see this as any greater burden than any of the other mandated safety equipment required for flight operations."

 

The funding option that the ADS-B project team are pushing is that the cost savings Airservices makes by not upgrading existing radars and ground navaids not be passed on to their paying customers [local and international airlines, small aviation businesses etc] but instead be used by Airservices to fund installation of transmitters in private VFR aircraft. I don't believe there is much chance of those paying users foregoing a fee reduction just to support the purses of private pilots. They have businesses to run and shareholders requiring them to conserve costs; if Airservices is making savings they will quite rightly want reduced fees.

 

I also don't believe the Commonwealth Government is going to hand out millions of dollars to ultralight aviation just so we can fly above 5000 feet if we choose to do so.

 

Unless Class G is removed from the ADS-B environment I think many RA-Aus owners should be prepared to shell out some big biccies in 2014 earlier if you want to fly in Class E or above 10 000 feet.

 

Better send in your responses now!

 

John Brandon