So what's the big announcement on Friday

[fly_tornado]

the board should be lobbying CASA to take over the safety functions of the RAA, after all they have the resources and expertise needed.

 

 

[farri]

Safety is, "No Accident!"

 

 

Frank.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

A Quote from M61A1 "I get a bit sick of hearing "our safety record is poor"....... absolutely bloody correct. My safety record is perfect ! and I'll do everything I can to make sure it stays that way...Flying can be dangerous and cowboys will be killed. So educate or dismiss the cowboys.................... It works on the road, demerit points , licence suspension ect....even jail for unlawful killing..WE can be the police. If you see something , say something.....BUT hi-vis vests, really is that the best management can come up with. Compulsory helmets might have more effect....

 

 

[robinsm]

So how can hi vis vests make me safer in the air??? Where do most of our safety problems occur, on the ground??? Are they saying that if I wear a hi vis vest when flying, I will be safer???

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Fairdinkum!!! Is there any chance of satisfying some people?..... As much as I can appreciate that it`s good to know what`s going on, in the organisation, (RA-Aus) does every member need to know every minute detail, at all times?Ross, You`re doing OK from where I sit!!!

 

Frank.

Frank, your valued support and opinion does not go unnoticed .

 

 

[Camel]

I am all for safety. I have for many years been a detractor of the excessive use of Flouro vests/shirts in millions of places. If you go to Woolies at 4 pm most days 25% of people there will be wearing a flouro shirt. A genuine safety initiative targeting the things that are killing people would imho be a great thing. A mail out of 4 flouro vests to each of our ftf's with some semi logical instruction to wear them on the flight line is a simple PR stunt gone wrong. This is not simply a group of employees at Canbera airfield, this has involved a mailout to all FTF's with a very mixed message. As I have said before and will continue to say information is paramount. That info must be passed to the members. I amm only aware of the mailout due to my continuing freindship with members of one of my local FTF's.

As you have read the mail out Geoff you would understand the focus of the safety promotion is not hi vis vests. Any promotion of any kind is good and communication with members is very important and I applaud you for keeping in touch with your FTF and posting here your opinions ( good or bad) .

 

To others I read this site to gauge people's opinions and like to help those seeking assistance or inspiration. I feel I have a lot to offer as I have hours, instuctor rating, L2, extreme weather and mountain experience, GA, RAA, HGFA and have had a few close calls. The close calls are things I have the answers for and have addressed them and teach students the faults I made, there is a saying in aviation " you must learn from other people's mistakes as you won't live long enough to learn from your own mistakes "

 

The mistakes I made are easily made and I feel I already have made a difference by preventing other from making the same mistake, one of my instructors sat me down and explained to me how his two former students died in an accident and how he dealt with guilt knowing the cause of the accident, that also gets passed on. Another two GA instructor also told me of deaths and the causes but the saddest is my mate, my mentor who introduced me to flying, a simple mistake cost him his life, I teach this to my students too.

 

It can happen to anyone if they become careless or do not get made aware of possible things than can attribute to accidents.

 

The flight safety magazine gives stories of accidents for people to learn from, I'm glad RAA have taken a step to educate and improve safety but safety is an attitude and a mind set to be good at what you do, And be mindful of others.

 

After a freigtening experience at a local airport I set about to change something so it wouldn't happen again, I succeeded and am proud I made the difference and may have saved lives, I didn't whinge to anyone I wrote constantly to CASA and got the change.

 

I applaud Board members and others who try to make a difference for posting their views and opinions on this forum, we are lucky they don't get put off by some as has happened to me many times.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

So how can hi vis vests make me safer in the air??? Where do most of our safety problems occur, on the ground??? Are they saying that if I wear a hi vis vest when flying, I will be safer???

We are all getting carried away with the high- viz vest thing. It is designed to be simply a symbol of a new safety initiative. I don't believe for one moment that they expect you, or me to actually wear them in flight. October is safety month....the orange vest is a continuance of the Orange theme which I'm sure you have already noticed that RAA has adopted. It's called corporate high viz in other circles, and is proving very successful for us.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

as a sidenote I thought that the high-vis was a lovely homage to our former PM on the most special of weeks, by the way. You won't see Turnbull running around looking so common.

 

 

[farri]

Flying can be dangerous and cowboys will be killed.

Not a correct or accurate statement! Numerous fatal accidents have occurred with high flying time pilots and instructors.

 

It works on the road, demerit points , licence suspension ect....even jail for unlawful killing.

I don`t believe it does work and the accidents just keep on occurring, but the fines issued do make a lot of $$$$ for the coffers.

 

WE can be the police.

You can if you wish!

 

BUT hi-vis vests, really is that the best management can come up with. Compulsory helmets might have more effect....

High vis vest might be of value in an open air AC like the Drifter! but in an LSA?...Compulsory Helmets?...Yeah, helmets might have more effect, then again! they might break some necks also.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, I`ve already been flying this morning.

 

 

[facthunter]

You had in McCormick, someone who was horrified by the very essence of what the RAAus stands for. His background was in another world of specialist, costly high tech stuff and he would never embrace things like people carving their own wood propellers. I hope Mark Skidmore is more sympathetic. A gustlock left engaged , or a shifting load, or empty tanks, will bring down any plane. big or small. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

You can do all sorts of things and talk about safety, write articles, put out bulletins, decrees, make things compulsory like boots and vests and helmets but unless you are able to change an individuals attitude nothing is going to work. As Michael Linke said in his report "Awkward Conversations" in this months Sportpilot, I'd rather someone talk to me about an unsafe act no matter how trivial than have them explain to my wife that I died doing something entirely preventable had I not taken an unacceptable risk. Out of 10,000 members those who are high risk takers may only be 1% but that is still 100 people. My guess is that the percentage is probably a lot higher, say 5% or more. We all probably know someone who we could say is a high risk taker & when they have an accident the all too familiar discussion of "it was only a matter of time" etc is at the forefront. Only when we can get the attitude of high risk takers modified to one of safety assessment of every situation and lowering their risk threshold, will anything really change.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

As you have read the mail out Geoff you would understand the focus of the safety promotion is not hi vis vests. Any promotion of any kind is good and communication with members is very important and I applaud you for keeping in touch with your FTF and posting here your opinions ( good or bad) .To others I read this site to gauge people's opinions and like to help those seeking assistance or inspiration. I feel I have a lot to offer as I have hours, instuctor rating, L2, extreme weather and mountain experience, GA, RAA, HGFA and have had a few close calls. The close calls are things I have the answers for and have addressed them and teach students the faults I made, there is a saying in aviation " you must learn from other people's mistakes as you won't live long enough to learn from your own mistakes "

The mistakes I made are easily made and I feel I already have made a difference by preventing other from making the same mistake, one of my instructors sat me down and explained to me how his two former students died in an accident and how he dealt with guilt knowing the cause of the accident, that also gets passed on. Another two GA instructor also told me of deaths and the causes but the saddest is my mate, my mentor who introduced me to flying, a simple mistake cost him his life, I teach this to my students too.

 

It can happen to anyone if they become careless or do not get made aware of possible things than can attribute to accidents.

 

The flight safety magazine gives stories of accidents for people to learn from, I'm glad RAA have taken a step to educate and improve safety but safety is an attitude and a mind set to be good at what you do, And be mindful of others.

 

After a freigtening experience at a local airport I set about to change something so it wouldn't happen again, I succeeded and am proud I made the difference and may have saved lives, I didn't whinge to anyone I wrote constantly to CASA and got the change.

 

I applaud Board members and others who try to make a difference for posting their views and opinions on this forum, we are lucky they don't get put off by some as has happened to me many times.

Very good post Camel and I thank you for posting it. Flying to me is a disipline just like a martial art. It must be done well or not at all, be sloppy or disrespectful and it will bite you for sure..it's just a matter of time. Older flyers like you and I will have learnt by many mistakes along the way, and by losses of fellow pilots. Those who say they haven't learnt from past mistakes ( theirs or others ) are either liars or fools.

My first loss was a very good friend and mentor back in 1984. He had taken me under his wing so to speak and had sunk the hook deeply into me on aviation. He loved and flew one of Larry Mauros Easy Risers, a kit that had an inverse lower surface on the airfoil. The originals were not rib stitched. But Larry had decided they should be and had sent out the kits to all the current owners. My friends kit was sitting in his hangar but he hadn't done it yet. On his next takeoff the fabric on one lower wing panel separated from the ribs and that was the end of Dave. A very sad and unnecessary loss of an aviator with so much to offer. I'd only known him for a short two years and felt cheated.

 

Dave had already turned me onto the EasyRiser magic and when I built my scratch- built biplane a few years later I based it on strengthened and modified Easy Riser wings.....and they were rib-stitched. The idea is to grow old, those without discipline or the ability to absorb lessons often don't make it.

 

We've lost ten good people this year, three were close friends of mine. It's time to become disciplined and pick up our game a notch....if it takes orange vests to do it....I'm in.

 

 

 

[rankamateur]

We are all getting carried away with the high- viz vest thing. It is designed to be simply a symbol of a new safety initiative. I don't believe for one moment that they expect you, or me to actually wear them in flight. October is safety month....the orange vest is a continuance of the Orange theme which I'm sure you have already noticed that RAA has adopted. It's called corporate high viz in other circles, and is proving very successful for us.

O is for Orange, O is for October...Now I get it.

 

 

[farri]

As Michael Linke said in his report "Awkward Conversations" in this months Sportpilot, I'd rather someone talk to me about an unsafe act no matter how trivial than have them explain to my wife that I died doing something entirely preventable had I not taken an unacceptable risk.

With so many different types of aircraft being flown by pilots with vast differences in ability and knowledge, and flown in so many different areas and situations! who`s to say what an "Unacceptable Risk" is ?

 

Example: I only fly within gliding distance of a safe landing area! always have! I taught it when I was instructing, ( has saved me and someone with me more than once over the many years),however, there are those who think that it`s an "Acceptable Risk" to fly over country, where there is little or no chance of survival, if the engine quits.

 

Frank.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Maybe the CFI's and instructors and experienced pilots can start a new thread for National Safety Month and each week they give us students and low hours pilots first hand stories of things that happened to them during their flying careers, things like Maj Millard and Camel are talking about, maybe a story with what happened and then what they should have done to prevent it happening, this may help us all be safer by the end of the month...what do you say guys?

 

David

 

 

[Camel]

Fair shake of the sauce bottle..so anyonne that disagrees need to get aPPL...not sure thats compliant with a membership organisation charter....??? we are entitled and should be actively encouraged to express our opinion, no matter how diverse it is.

I support transit of control but I don't support access as if you want it a RPL or PPL will provide this. Extra weight is something that will go on forever and there will be a price, older Jabiru LSA55 have a MTOW of 420 I think and that was where the weight were much lower, they gave us 544kg and 5000 feet, they gave us 10000 and 600 kg, a lot of Ultralights and LSA cannot meet 600 let alone higher, in fact your aircraft may not even carry 600kg according to specs on web. So the weight increase is no help to you. I have a 230 Jabiru and is capable well over 600kg, the observance of weight is important and mine is basic to reduce weight. All the bells and whistles take up weight, if you want all the gadgets, extra weight, CTA and plenty of seats buy a GA plane like I did before and find out what it really costs. RAA is affordable flying, basic and sometimes seat of your pants and that is what may save your backside, the ability to feel the Aeroplane and feel the weather.

 

The J230 was not available when I bought a C172 and I loved my plane. The J230 is a compromise, I would love to have my C172 back but not affordable. I maintain my GA Licence by BFR and Class 2 medical and maintain a RAA instructor rating by PE flight reviews. From your own statements you have trouble getting a medical and many GA pilots came to RAA because they lost their medicals and that is fine, CASA could force all to hold medicals and that is not what members want, they want affordable flying without the strict medical.

 

I also will not take overweight people flying and I make no apology as these are LIGHT aircraft and not meant to carry HEAVY people. I need to lose weight too as I'm reducing my fuel and luggage capability. Weight is a big safety issue and it starts with crew weight and BEW.

 

A Car drivers Licence is a privilege not a right ! A pilot licence is a luxury and will take some work to keep it, I have never regretted a penny spent on training. If you can't get a medical you should be so grateful that RAA exist to allow people to fly. Many RAA members hold GA licences and understand the issues.

 

Express your opinion by all means but respect others too ! When you became a member of RAA you agreed not to bring RAA into disrepute ! That is in the ops manual ! I found your BS comment a little off and part of the problem as I know the safety programs is well intended. When you loose a friend by a simple mistake it hurts.

 

Pioneer 300 Kite, is this your aircraft spec ?

 

Engine power: 100 Hp

 

DIMENSIONS

 

Wing span 7,55 m

 

Wing area 10 mq

 

Length 6,25 m

 

Cabin width 1,05 m

 

WEIGHTS

 

Empty weight 315 Kg

 

Max weight (VLA) 560 Kg

 

LOADS

 

In flight load factor +3,8/-1,9 g @ 560 Kg

 

Tank capacity 80 l

 

Baggage volume 300 l

 

Max baggage load 20 Kg

 

 

[flyerme]

Maybe the CFI's and instructors and experienced pilots can start a new thread for National Safety Month and each week they give us students and low hours pilots first hand stories of things that happened to them during their flying careers, things like Maj Millard and Camel are talking about, maybe a story with what happened and then what they should have done to prevent it happening, this may help us all be safer by the end of the month...what do you say guys?David

Need to read my book!!!!!!!!!! It's all there:)

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not going public with all I've done. The reaction would be IF HE can get away with it so can I.. Aviation is not very forgiving. IF YOU think "everybody makes mistakes" I think you may well come a gutsa with that attitude. If you say "I had a look, but I will check it again as I'm not certain", you are on the way to the right approach to being the sort of pilot one would let his wife and kids fly with, and that's the sort of pilot you should be. Manage your flying situations so you don't need to be the world's best pilot, or rely on uncanny luck to get out of the situation you have put yourself in. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Camel , I think this is getting a little personal, so I will refrain from further comment..

 

So lets just agree to disagree and not let this get personal... I respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. even if we disagree

 

 

[flyerme]

For safety month (Oct). Be safe

 

 

[M61A1]

A Quote from M61A1 "I get a bit sick of hearing "our safety record is poor"....... absolutely bloody correct. My safety record is perfect ! and I'll do everything I can to make sure it stays that way...Flying can be dangerous and cowboys will be killed. So educate or dismiss the cowboys.................... It works on the road, demerit points , licence suspension ect....even jail for unlawful killing..WE can be the police. If you see something , say something.....BUT hi-vis vests, really is that the best management can come up with. Compulsory helmets might have more effect....

Actually, it doesn't work on the road. Drink driving is still rife, as is using mobiles while driving, and some of the sentences I've seen handed down tell me the law doesn't value the innocent life much at all. Speed seems to all they're interested in policing, but since it's not the major killer they say it is, nothing is changing.

Just keep the "cowboys" away from the public and let nature run its course, if they get the public involved, hang em high.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Maybe the CFI's and instructors and experienced pilots can start a new thread for National Safety Month and each week they give us students and low hours pilots first hand stories of things that happened to them during their flying careers, things like Maj Millard and Camel are talking about, maybe a story with what happened and then what they should have done to prevent it happening, this may help us all be safer by the end of the month...what do you say guys?David

David

Be careful reading too much into Internet opinions, best advice for a student is listen to your instructor, there is a lot of advice by "some" that are actually VERY amature when it comes to the real world.

 

I would suggest a new pilot needs a bit of exposure to be able to sort the weeds from the chaff.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Go and read this page, consider the numbers and then try to comeback without a better impression of our safety record.. then consider this is just victoria where every year around 40-50 pax are killed and 900 seriously injured in one sport or passion alone

 

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/statistics/summaries/motorcycle-crash-data

 

We have a lot of similarities except we also have gravity and height to contend with.

 

Yet we dont see motorcyclists fretting thier sport or transport will be shut down..

 

As someone that has been into motorcycles my entire life , i have lost many people i know, i have even lost friends children...it hurts, its horrible, but it happens

 

Several friends, my sister in laws boyfirend, a work colleague and a good mates son, plus several others close , but not that close. Im not belittling it, but i think most motorcyclists lose a Lot more people they know to motorbikes than pilots...its no less tragic...but its worth considering to keep it all relative. This doesnt include the heartache and trauma of many seriously injured friends and a few very serious accidents myself.

 

 

[Aldo]

If that is the case then that does improve it in my view, as I said earlier the whole orange vest and Political pr may still be a waste of money but if it was funded (fully or part thereof) by CASA then that doesn't worry me so much.A safety month does have the potential to grow and help but as others have said spreading the word could be done a whole lot better. I'm nearly 30 and I refuse to get Facebook and I know I'm not alone there, especially considering the older generation of our flyers I would have thought a special email would have been in order.

 

While safety is important the LAST thing we need is for RAaus to turn into a mini CASA just because that makes CASA happy and this last pr thingy certainly had the look of something that was just put on for show.

No just your tax $ paying for it!!

 

 

[SDQDI]

No just your tax $ paying for it!!

Of course but I prefer paying 1 part in 10 million than 1 part in 10,000:nod: (Ok I have no idea how many taxpayers we have in our nation so the ten mil was just a rough figure but no doubt there are more taxpayers than Raa has members)