STING TL 2000 DOWN IN ALPS

[Oscar]

Oh, yes, the morning ritual , and the very unkind 'Throw another Harley on the Fire, Mother Dear' chants. One year I took an XL250 in, a mate took a complete 8-man Marquee tent on his R100RS (which nearly had us thrown out for 'assistance' until someone came over and said 'no, I saw them coming in with it', I took the poles). I thought I had by far the best of that deal, until I tried to start the bloody XL; we had to sit it over the embers of the fire to get it warm enough to kick over. Yes, the atmosphere was great, and Stones Green Ginger and brandy plus some alternative herbals assisted. I suspect both of those fuelled the two guys who were doing 100-metre-plus wheelies on a scooter through the campground one-year, to everybody's delight and amazement.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ahh, the Le Mans Mk III. A work of art and one of the many bikes I lusted after.

Paul Beeby and Tommy Newell are good friends and if you had spent the amount of time I have watching them do the warranty work in the day, the lust would subside some.

 

At the time I owned my Yamaha RZ350, 3 of my mates had round case Ducs, you could count on 2 of them to turn up for a ride. Maybe. And we always made sure to get back in daylight.

 

 

[Soleair]

+1 on the VFR. I've owned two, & done over 100,000 kms on them (cumulatively). Even a bit of time on a couple of race tracks, where I still reached my limit way before the bike's.

 

I checked the cam clearances on my first Viffer after 40,000 km and they were all within tolerance. And the engine was beautifully clean - the engineering is truly inspiring. The only fault I had in all those miles was one reg-rec failure.

 

Loved them to bits, but I can't ride sportsbikes where I live because the roos all lurk at the side of the road waiting to jump out & kill me. Plus the roads are mostly potholes joined by the odd stretch of tar. Oh, & I'm getting old. . .

 

So it's a Suzuki DRZ now: still fun, but I did love those VFR's.

 

Bruce

 

 

[Oscar]

I'm like O.K. nowadays - even the viffer is getting a bit heavy for me unless I'm in good nick. I'd ridden a VF750F, and it did the head-shake on me that they were notorious for, and scared the crap out of me, I was travelling fairly rapidly. So I was a bit worried - not having ridden for something like 15 years - when I got onto the '86 with the 16" front - and within the first kilometer, I just was back in love with riding. Below 5k, the 'two ducs flying in unison' noise and the gentle, gentle pulsations, then when the cams come in, it was the old CB400/4 all over again, but twice as quick - just loverly. But to my horror, both wrists failed me within about 10 k's - a double carpal-tunnel put paid to riding it for the time being.

 

The quality of engineering on the viffer is just fabulous, everywhere. I believe Soichiro Honda was so ashamed of the VF750F failure, he said: 'build it to regain our reputation, sod the cost' - and I reckon that might just be the truth. I got mine from a Wrecker - kid couldn't afford to register it - and went over it totally; it had over 75k on it and rode like a new bike in all respects, after I'd changed out the headstock bearings. Those, and the rear disc under width, was the sum total of wear on it. I wanted 'the White Bike', but it is Rocket Ron Haslam blue, so second-best..

 

 

[cherk]

So where did the Sting go in this thread ??

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

So where did the Sting go in this thread ??

Where it belonged.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Paul Beeby and Tommy Newell are good friends and if you had spent the amount of time I have watching them do the warranty work in the day, the lust would subside some...

Doesn't surprise me Bex. Guzzi owners' advice was to never buy a new one, but look for a second hand one- the bugs would have been sorted out.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That's true OK, good advice.

 

The worrying thing about them, as with many Italian items, is that the warranties weren't consistent, could be anything from oil seals to clutch to rings, etc - unlike a Jap bike that might have one or two common faults.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I got 50m on my brand new Ducati before a cover plate fell off and was lost. Even though the dealer had just fitted it (after adjusting the throttle) he refused to replace it under warranty. Things went downhill from there...

 

 

[dazza 38]

Fellas, if you want european quality and japanese reliability, buy a KTM.( BMW are both reliable and quality but it makes my post pointless, so we wont go there);

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Fellas, if you want european quality and japanese reliability, buy a KTM.( BMW are both reliable and quality but it makes my post pointless, so we wont go there);

The KTM 450-550 Vtwin engine is known in the trade as the biggest lemon of the millennium. Then there's the service and parts prices, ouch.

 

I respect KTM for having a go at and occasionally matching the Japs (and for sticking with 2 stroke MX bikes) but at the end of the day ....

 

BMW owners are strange dudes.

 

What's this European quality crap? The Japs have veritably reigned supreme bar none in all levels of reliability in cars and bikes for 30 years now, get over the myth.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

 

The 10 Best & Worst Cars

 

Top 10 Best

 

Position Make/Model

 

Reliability Rating

 

1 Mitsubishi Lancer 6.00

 

2 Honda Jazz 6.00

 

3 Vauxhall Agila 9.00

 

4 Toyota Yaris 13.00

 

5 Suzuki Alto 14.00

 

6 Chevrolet KALOS 15.00

 

7 Suzuki Liana 16.00

 

8 Hyundai Getz 16.00

 

9 Mazda MX-5 17.00

 

10 Citroen SAXO 18.00

 

The 10 Best & Worst Cars

 

Bottom 10 Worst

 

Position Make/Model

 

Reliability Rating

 

1 Audi RS6 1125.00

 

2 BMW M5 776.00

 

3 Nissan GT-R 658.00

 

4 Porsche 911 996 630.00

 

5 Bentley Continental GT 603.00

 

6 Mercedes-Benz CL 584.00

 

7 Mercedes-Benz V-Class 575.00

 

8 Citroen C6 512.00

 

9 Mercedes-Benz SL 502.00

 

10 Mercedes-Benz GL 489.00

 

Car Reliability News

 

States of Repair – Japanese and French brands top international league table of car reliability

 

Posted: 16/07/2014

 

 

 

 

 

Japanese and French brands produce Europe’s most reliable cars, according to new research by Warranty Direct’s Reliability Index.

 

As a major international football event comes to a close in South America, Warranty Direct has put together its own league table of which countries develop the most dependable vehicular exports. The vehicles analysed were an average of five years old with mileages of around 50,000.

 

Japanese brands dominated the top of the table with marques including Honda, Toyota, Mazda and Nissan producing some of the most reliable models on the market.

 

French carmakers – Citroën, Peugeot and Renault – come second in the reliability rankings with South Korea completing the top three – Hyundai and Kia amongst the country’s more dependable exports.

 

Japanese brands are most susceptible to axle and suspension problems, responsible for an average 25% of faults. French and South Korean vehicles however are more likely to develop electrical faults, at 29% and 22% of cases respectively.

 

MOST RELIABLE COUNTRIES

 

Japan-1

 

France-2

 

S Korea-3

 

USA-4

 

Sweden-5

 

Germany-6

 

Italy-7

 

UK-8

 

 

[Marty_d]

I only have five words to say to you motorcycle Philistines.....................Bavarian Motor Works (R100CS) and Moto Guzzi (Lemans).

They are real bikes for grown men, both had over 200,000 kms when I sold them and both would leave a Dramah or any other similar period Ducati for dead. That is assuming the Duck lasted past the first corner.

 

My mates had em and they were a great way to make money for the dealer/mechanic. At 40k they were tired and about to spit large bits on the road. Same with the 500-600 Pantahs. I rode lots of ducks but could always beat em on the BMW or the Guzzi.

 

Both the Guzzi and BMW were pushrod but still revved harder and only needed valve guides and clutch replacement after 120,000 k. That was three rebuilds on the duck if the owner was real lucky. And Gowanloch made a fortune fixing the ducks- enough to retire to Italy.

 

I even had a Pantah 600 with 9k on it after a rebuild go bang big time halfway through a bend. Total destruction of the engine/box. Bastard thing tried to kill me. Modern Ducks are far better but still a money sink at the workshop.

 

Financial masochists run old ducatis

 

Real Masochists ride Moto Guzzi Lemans

 

Cruising the Snowy mountains Hwy at 170 with missus on back and loaded with gear was the forte of the r100cs, and leaving the pussies on Ducks and Hondas behind, then flogging when you get to Brown Mountain= Priceless.

As an ex-pussy (Honda) I also would like to put a tick against the VFR. I've had 2 (first one got nicked) and they are bloody reliable, go like stink and handle beautifully.

 

I went on the annual Toy Run once with a group of mates on Harleys. One of them wound it out to 200 on the straight after Grasstree Hill, (yes, a Harley!) so I overtook him. I have no idea what speed I was doing as the dial only went to 240.

 

Come to think of it, it would've been shortly afterwards that my bike got pinched. Wonder if I offended him...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I guess I am not a big VF fan because I actually worked on the early ones doing overtime for cash at a Honda dealer after hours replacing camshafts, timing chain tensioners and guides on 750s and 1000s, and later whole porous casings on VFRs that we had to sign an NDA so the public never knew the issues.

 

People would book their VFR in for a sevice and to "fix the oil leak", Service Manager would make an excuse why the bike wouldn't be ready until the next day and a couple of us would change the cases in 5 - 6 hours that night and the customer never knew. The old cases were locked up and every week a Rep from Honda Australia would take them away quietly.

 

I don't know what it was with Honda and their camshaft and rocker face hardening failures, it started in the early 70's and continued right through to the early 90's on various models, cars and bikes.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The KTM 450-550 Vtwin engine is known in the trade as the biggest lemon of the millennium.

Oops, sorry Dazza, I was thinking of the Aprilia 450 VTwin, but meh, the KTM isn't short of major failures though.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Bex

 

You quote cars but bikes jap crap.

 

Not a chance. But did like the vfr if someone else owned it.

 

And yes us BMW riders (wing nuts) are a breed apart.

 

Remember the alpine rally and seeing dicks on trailies riding through tents at 2am pissed. lucky no one died.

 

But loved leaving in morning at speed on the BMW and catching the cookies on the dirt. Poor mates on ducks shitting themselves at 20kms/hr. That's after they got them started.

 

Stones green steam and a good herbal smoke, great times.

 

The LeMans had crap switch blocks that would make Lord Lucas prince of darkness proud. Replaced with Yamaha stuff. Plus Laverda bars and a duck 860 seat and BMW headlight. The original seat was like a plank of wood.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

So where did the Sting go in this thread ??

You're right Cherk mate,. . . .

 

I should've put it at the Tail End of the thread. . .

 

 

[dazza 38]

The KTM 450-550 Vtwin engine is known in the trade as the biggest lemon of the millennium. Then there's the service and parts prices, ouch.I respect KTM for having a go at and occasionally matching the Japs (and for sticking with 2 stroke MX bikes) but at the end of the day ....

 

BMW owners are strange dudes.

 

What's this European quality crap? The Japs have veritably reigned supreme bar none in all levels of reliability in cars and bikes for 30 years now, get over the myth.

That is old school thinking, KTM have for years made great competitive MX bikes, oh and KTM have been making the best enduro bikes for years.

They also have won more enduro championships than any than brand.

 

Then there is the Dakar rally, KTM has won that more than any other brand .

 

I think that just abouts covers it,

 

 

[Oscar]

Bex - yes, Honda used some sort of lacquer as a sealer on the inside of the cases and if if was breached, they'd seep. That and the magnesium content used to made them impossible to weld (with Tig, anyway). The nicest piece of alloy I think I ever welded was a TZ350 water pump housing, with a Husky head next after that. The VF cams were a disaster but AFAIK all of that went away with the viffer.

 

Litespeed - Yes, the few numptys on trailbikes were a bloody menace - were you there the year one tried to cross the river and drowned it, then dropped it half-way across? He'd been such a bloody nuisance a whole lot of us gathered on the bank and clapped, and basically let him know that he was not appreciated. There's always a few, I guess, but mostly the Alpine was marvellously free of them.

 

 

[Soleair]

I had the head shake twice on my VFR. Once on a track day, when I foolishly applied a handful of front brake going into a bend, instead of just leaning harder. And once when I hit a badger in a country road in the pre dawn. but the bike recovered itself.

 

As regards speed, I was riding with a mate on a GSXR 600 when we came to a long straight dual carriageway. He went for it, and so I was honour bound to go for it too! I saw 147 and the redline on the tacho before sanity prevailed. (That was miles per hour, of course!)

 

Just loved that bike.

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

Cambridge on line dictionary. "a situation in which a plane turns round and round as it falls quickly towards the ground"

Over this way, when many in the media say "tail spin" we know they have decided that the subject airplane was in either a spin or a spiral . . . or that at least was descending when it impacted terra firma. They also call Gulfstream 650s and Challengers "small airplanes." A "flat spin" would just create confusion. "How does an airplane descend if it is 'flat'?," they would ask.

 

 

[Marty_d]

How about removing the adjective and just call it a "spin"...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That is old school thinking, KTM have for years made great competitive MX bikes, oh and KTM have been making the best enduro bikes for years.They also have won more enduro championships than any than brand.

Then there is the Dakar rally, KTM has won that more than any other brand .

 

I think that just abouts covers it,

KTM spend a lot of money and pay for the best riders, not rocket science. Honda and Yamaha won Dakar for years when they did the same thing (and now trying again) but I don't think it's relevant to what you buy on the showroom floor. Speaking of "old school", I have owned Pentons and a 490 so well aware of their history. My Mate got a full personal guided tour through the KTM factory early this year and almost some consultancy work.

 

BexYou quote cars but bikes jap crap.

Yuh, that's why everyone keeps buying them.

 

If you got on to the subject of character and feel, I wouldn't argue for a moment, Italian and many other Euro cars and bikes are alive, but you're just not living in the real world if you think for a moment they are better made or more reliable.

 

Of course feel free to mention how many Euros, including KTM, did or still do use Jap electrics and carbys/EFI to get them reliable.

 

 

[dazza 38]

KTM spend a lot of money and pay for the best riders, not rocket science. Honda and Yamaha won Dakar for years when they did the same thing (and now trying again) but I don't think it's relevant to what you buy on the showroom floor. Speaking of "old school", I have owned Pentons and a 490 so well aware of their history. My Mate got a full personal guided tour through the KTM factory early this year and almost some consultancy work.

 

 

Yuh, that's why everyone keeps buying them.

 

If you got on to the subject of character and feel, I wouldn't argue for a moment, Italian and many other Euro cars and bikes are alive, but you're just not living in the real world if you think for a moment they are better made or more reliable.

 

Of course feel free to mention how many Euros, including KTM, did or still do use Jap electrics and carbys/EFI to get them reliable.

My KTM 1190 Adventure uses Bosch electrics.

 

 

[Oscar]

Ah, the eternal 'character' debate.. it's a Furphy. Lots of Jap. bikes had/have 'character', of various sorts. The first bike I ever rode, was a Beezer Bantam. It had 'character'', all right - mostly, of a Midlands UK coal-miner on strike. Next was a Suzuki Hustler, which when it came on the pipe had all the character of a cage-fighter on amphetamines. Via an XL350 ( plain vanilla, but it actually taught me a heap about low-speed handling, full-lock and playing the clutch and brakes to dodge and weave forest obstacles and using body weight on the footrests), to a CB 400/4 - which became a cult bike in the UK, practically the spiritual home of 'character' bikes. The 400/4 was a street scrambler par excellence, you could carve up traffic like a surgeon or wind it through tight twisties ( e.g. the Burley Griffin Lakeside road) entering every corner on trail-braking and exiting hanging the tail on power, I kid you not. 12k redline, a 6-speed box, you could wring its neck everywhere and it never, ever, did anything but what it was told to do.

 

CBX1000 (the 6): a cruise missile: it wanted to go straight ahead to warp speed but you could bully it to corner through negotiation and sincere application of the whip. It shared with Bugattis the belief that brakes are only there to slow you down.

 

GS 850 - an aircraft carrier, I didn't enjoy it. Kwacka Z1300 - a VERY FAST aircraft carrier/B-double tractor.

 

The first GSX-R would take you from zero to arrested in less time than you could calculate the points on your license before you realised you were in that zone ( from my memory); the Kwacka H2 750 would try at every opportunity to kill you (by repute, I never got to ride one). I remember a Honda 400 twin that had all the character and performance of a BSA 500, except it didn't piddle oil over your boots (perhaps a character 'flaw') .

 

A few of years ago, my younger (adult) son told me he wanted to get his bike licence. I found a VF250F and did it up for him, and rode it for a while - it was MASSIVE fun, like a puppy that just wants to please. That is 'character' - not intimidating character, or cranky character, or even demanding character: just a 'hey, let's go out and play' character. Like a bike that when it grew up, would maybe become a Ducati.

 

'Character' does not have to be restricted to traits that impose on you, from bruised testicles through failed electrics or expected component breakdowns. 'Character' can be the ability to support the spirit of the ride, whether it's hooning down to the local shops on a crisp, clear morning to get a carton of milk or being up to it when you want to clear your head with a seriously fast ride up the Cann Valley Highway. And - much as I have respect for the European bikes - a viffer will do the Cann Valley as fast and with as much pleasure as anything yet produced.