Ratbag aeroplane buyer

[pmccarthy]

i have read about the problems people experience when trying to sell an aeroplane, but didn't really think it would happen to me. A couple of weeks ago I had a bloke say he was hot to buy my plane, needed it for a flying school, had the money in his pocket and would meet me at the airfield on Saturday. I waited all day but he didn't show up.

 

Then he rang to say he had been in hospital with pneumonia but would come down the next weekend, same deal. He just needed me to get an RAAus condition report and have the ASI and altimeter calibrated properly to the GA standard. I am a mug, didn't even ask why. So my LAME obliged to get this done on the Friday, cost several hundred dollars which was fair because I was there and saw the work involved. Then on Saturday a repeat performance. He didn't show up and has not responded to phone or email messages.

 

So what jollies does someone get out of stuffing me around like that? Why would they bother? If it is a scam, I can't figure out what the scam is.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Being one of those people who always tries to look for the best in people, maybe he really is crook and has had a relapse.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Perhaps he is really crook...or perhaps he is a crook?

 

Try phoning from a different number and see what response you get. If he's a crook, post the details here but don't make comments impugning his reputation. Leave everyone to draw their own conclusions.

 

Kaz

 

 

[red750]

This may be a variation on scams perpetrated on sellers of items on classified web sites or print sales. Here is a link to the web page of the NSW Fair Trading, dealing with scams. Although headed for cars sales, the same scams can be applied to any commodity.

 

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/sites/ftw/About_us/News_and_events/Media_releases/2014_media_releases/20140302_warning_on_car_sale_scam.page

 

Here's a similar warning from WA Dept of Commerce.

 

http://www.scamnet.wa.gov.au/scamnet/Types_Of_Scams-Buying_selling_and_online_sales_scams-Online_car_sales_scam_buyer.htm

 

 

[dazza 38]

This may be a variation on scams perpetrated on sellers of items on classified web sites or print sales. Here is a link to the web page of the NSW Fair Trading, dealing with scams. Although headed for cars sales, the same scams can be applied to any commodity.http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/sites/ftw/About_us/News_and_events/Media_releases/2014_media_releases/20140302_warning_on_car_sale_scam.page

 

Here's a similar warning from WA Dept of Commerce.

 

http://www.scamnet.wa.gov.au/scamnet/Types_Of_Scams-Buying_selling_and_online_sales_scams-Online_car_sales_scam_buyer.htm

I cannot believe idiots still fall for this crap.

 

 

[Litespeed]

A fool and his money is easily parted

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I have been contacted and Kaz is right - he really is crook. Apologies for all my negative thoughts, and I hope he recovers soon.

 

 

[440032]

Don't tell us you're going to bend over, yet again, for Round 4 Peter!

 

Who were you contacted by? Him? Himself? Again? This has scam written all over it.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Lets set him up for a bargain out west and use him for pig bait....

 

 

[cscotthendry]

P:

 

Whether or not it is a scam, IMO, it is the buyer's responsibility and expense to get a condition report done.

 

In your case, I really doubt that a scammer would know enough about buying an airplane to request a condition report and gauge calibration. And even if they did, what would be the point unless they directly benefitted from it.

 

Selling an airplane or any other big ticket item is really stressful and there is always the danger of falling into catastrophisation. I did it when I sold my previous plane and drove myself nuts over it. Expect the buyer to constantly have his hand in your pocket (and he's not fishing for your nuts) so be prepared to give his hand a smack every time he tries it on. Be firm but gentile. Remember that it is the buyer's duty to try to get your plane for as little as he possibly can, and it is your duty to wring as many pfennigs out of him as possible, even if you have to hang him by his heels over a high precipice. If he's serious, he'll stick with you. If he's a tyre kicker, he'll soon be gone and out of your hair. The one's that are the biggest pains are the ones you want. They finagle and wheedle for a little bit more, but they hang in there. They're the serious players.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Just remember it is a luxury item. No one needs your plane.

 

They may want it but an arrogant seller will send a buyer elsewhere very quickly.

 

My original comment about maybe he really is sick was made because a scammer would be highly unlikely to ask you to do what you were asked, they were questions a potential purchaser may have asked though.

 

Unless of course the scammer is your local LAME. LOL

 

 

[Stoney]

Or your ex wife's new boyfriend.

 

 

[facthunter]

HE should already be your friend. You would certainly owe him a lot. Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

Poor bugger should get a OBE and a Distinguished Service Medal for services to Manhood.

 

 

[eightyknots]

i have read about the problems people experience when trying to sell an aeroplane, but didn't really think it would happen to me. A couple of weeks ago I had a bloke say he was hot to buy my plane, needed it for a flying school, had the money in his pocket and would meet me at the airfield on Saturday. I waited all day but he didn't show up.Then he rang to say he had been in hospital with pneumonia but would come down the next weekend, same deal. He just needed me to get an RAAus condition report and have the ASI and altimeter calibrated properly to the GA standard. I am a mug, didn't even ask why. So my LAME obliged to get this done on the Friday, cost several hundred dollars which was fair because I was there and saw the work involved. Then on Saturday a repeat performance. He didn't show up and has not responded to phone or email messages.

 

So what jollies does someone get out of stuffing me around like that? Why would they bother? If it is a scam, I can't figure out what the scam is.

Any update on the buyer's health? Hopefully the sale of your aeroplane will be completed soon.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Turns out he is a lovely bloke, is getting over the illness and, best of all, bought my plane this morning.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Turns out he is a lovely bloke, is getting over the illness and, best of all, bought my plane this morning.

Better change the title of the thread before he signs up to the site!

 

 

[eightyknots]

Turns out he is a lovely bloke, is getting over the illness and, best of all, bought my plane this morning.

Well done. All is well that ends well.

 

Better change the title of the thread before he signs up to the site!

I think that is one thing that you cannot edit. You may have to PM Ian for that.

 

 

[Geoff13]

A good result for both of you by the sound of it.

 

 

[facthunter]

Not after HE reads this thread. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

I don't know. PM asked for advice. Got lots. Acted on the good advice and got a good result. Thats what forums are for.

 

 

[440032]

Congrats then Peter, all's well that ends. Sounded just SO suss, straight out of, well, something suss.

 

Happy seller, happy buyer, off to the bar!

 

 

[Yenn]

I always thought that it was the sellers responsibility to get the condition report. As required by RAAus. Am I wrong?

 

 

[kasper]

I always thought that it was the sellers responsibility to get the condition report. As required by RAAus. Am I wrong?

You are wrong - technically.

It is neither the buyer nor the seller responsibility as it is only required to transfer the registration not to sell the aircraft BUT the tech manual says its the buyers responsibility unless agreed with seller to full one out to have and you cannot change the registration of the aircraft without one.

 

Given that you can sell and aircraft and it become/remain unregistered following sale it follows that logically it cannot be required of either party to the sale but the buyer is responsible for producing it to allow registration to transfer.

 

Upshot is - practically it is good as a seller to have an ACR available as it demonstrates in mind of the potential buyer (rightly or wrongly) that it is good ... and it saves them arranging and paying for one themselves.

 

And just to round it out different forms and requirements apply to some other registration sequences eg 95.10

 

 

[cscotthendry]

IMO it is the buyer's responsibility. Consider a scenario: the seller gets a condition report when they first advertise the plane, but for whatever reasons, it takes 12-18 months to get a buyer interested. What then? The condition report is so out of date it is meaningless as all the info about hours, maintenance, landings and even possible damage is likely incorrect. So when selling a plane, when/how often would you get the condition report updated, bearing in mind that it costs money every time you do it?

 

On the other hand, the buyer and seller can agree on who pays for the condition report, but again IMO, if a buyer is not prepared to pay for a condition report, I'd wonder how serious they are. Edit: in fact I'd go so far as to say that if a buyer is not prepared to pay for a condition report, I'd regard them as a tyre kicker and treat them accordingly.