Phil Perry Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Had some PILLOCK in a C-182, trying to land at our site yesterday,. . .( I was not there to see this) my associate radio op was on duty and tried to contact the pilot bu thee was no response. Pilot tried to land, . . . . four attempts, and touched the grass runway twice, during his four landing attempts. The duty runway was 07R, indicated on the ground signals square. This aircraft attempted to land downwind, on rwy 25L,. . . . with no ground radio contact. The surface wind at the time was 050 deg, @ 9 Kt. The runway length is advertised in the airield directories as 350 Metres. . . I had recieved a phone call on the previous Thursday from a bloke with an "Asian" sounding accent, who said that he was a serving airline pilot and "Knew what he was doing. . ." he had asked for permission to land at our field, and had indicated that the aircraft was a C-182, with 3 Pax + luggage, and that his pax needed to get to Cannock,. . .and that our airfield was the closest he could find on the chart. I told him that the runways were not sufficiently long to accommodate that type, and he disagreed. I have over 150 hours on that particular type, and I said that he was talking bollox,( although, I did not couch it in those terms. . .you know me,. . .always polite. . . .! ) and that the airfield management were not prepared to accept the flight, which he had said was three passengers, plus luggage. He seemed to accept that,. . . . and did not call back. Why is it that some pilots think that their aircraft will operate completely outside the POH limits,. . . I honestly cannot remember the POH with regard to runway lengths for the C-182,. . .as it has been over 35 years since I have driven one,. . . but I am bloody sure that 350 metres is well under the approved limits for the type at MAUW,. . .anyone out there got a 182 POH ?. . . . can't be bothered with Wikibollox because most of it is usually. . . . Phil Having a whinge as usual. . . PS,. . .I am taking a crapload of grief just because we beat the Poms at Rugby. . . . .I've told all my friends that I don't give a toss, and that I really prefer NETBALL. . .as it's usually played by young voluptuous girlies with short skirts. . . . . . BUT,. . .I have to add that I AM not A PERVE. . .HEE HEE HEE. . . . . 1
Aldo Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 ClippedHad some PILLOCK in a C-182 Phil I fly one regularly (about 100 hrs in the last year) if you are really on your game, the short field approach bang on and on tarmac you will probably get it down safely, I wouldn't try it if I didn't have to and certainly not with 3 pax just because they didn't want to drive a bit further (apart from that I think you can drive from one side of the UK to the other faster than I can drive to my closest supermarket) and yes what an excellent game of Rugby yesterday, now we are just about even after Johnny's drop goal in the final. Aldo 2
Guest ozzie Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Asian sounding (Indian) sky's full of that sound over hear.
facthunter Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I sent Phil an extract of short landing figures from the POH. Hope he got them. Bit marginal with the tailwind. BUT good....Nev
Phil Perry Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 I sent Phil an extract of short landing figures from the POH. Hope he got them. Bit marginal with the tailwind. BUT good....Nev Aldo, Ozzie, Nev, Thanks guys, I used to fly a 182 quite often from Casey Airfield, Vic. but as I mentioned, not for a while. The main issue with the site is Local Authority Planning permission and Insurance. My number is listed amongst four others as a briefing and general contact number for ops, so I have to be a little careful when recieving Prior Permission requests, since we have had several incidents over the last six years where pilots of GA aircraft have been unable, for whatever reason to adapt themselves to our site which is now somewhat constrained, with a recommended circuit height of 500 Ft, or a little less, due to sensitive overflight restrictions on all but two of the runway approaches, the others requiring fairly tight turning at low level coupled with minimum safe speeds. . . .making the place generally "Tight" with very little margin for error. Two of these incidents, ie damage to a C-152, and a PA28 151 write off; ( fortunately with no injuries ) Both due to over-running the available length, . .caused the management to "Go Strict" and not take any chances. The runways are actually a bit longer than advertised, our own built in bit of margin and all of the timber and wire boundary fences were completely removed. The C-152 commander ran off the end of rwy 16R on his third attempt. . .too high, too long and a bit too fast IMHO. . .and then insisted he'd been told that the" runways were much longer than that" . . . He was also using the wrong radio frequency, so we couldn't chat to him either. . . When I said "Asian" accented pilot BTW, I actually meant strongly Chinese or Korean perhaps. . . dunno why I mentioned that actually ! I've landed C172 / PA28 there in the early days, prior to full regulation, but this was when we had long final approaches available all around, and plenty of time to nail the speed and alignment. We now have to operate close, curving downwind to final procedures to keep it nice and tight and not upset the neighbours. Most GA sites are not like this and those GA pilots who are not used to small strip flying could have problems. Sensibly, the place just isn't big enough for GA, and it sould really be restricted to lower inertia types . . . not my decision though. Phil. 3
G-TOO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 "With 3 Pax + luggage" and 350Metres ground run(very tight)I wouldn't let him loose on a pushbike! Oh! and if you got his reg invoice him for the two landings hehe! Mike 2
Phil Perry Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 Hiya Mike, and welcome again to the forum. . . Actually, it was immediately following the C-152 incident that the "Management" dropped landing charges also, the legal eagles apparently suggested to the management that if a fee was levied, then the site had a formal "Duty of Care" to the visiting aircraft owner and his property, more particularly with regard to the seccurity of any visiting aircraft left on the field overnight. . . so to keep the insurance cover affordable, valour is sacrificed on the altar of discretion. They just don't want the hassle of negative media attention when someone gets it spectacularly wrong . . . we've had three major crash jobbies in the past ten years, but ( looks around for a bit of wood to touch. . .) Nobody has become Dedded thus far,. . . ( couple of bloody close "Nearlies" though. . . .) Phil.
G-TOO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Hiya Mike, and welcome again to the forum. . .Actually, it was immediately following the C-152 incident that the "Management" dropped landing charges also, the legal eagles apparently suggested to the management that if a fee was levied, then the site had a formal "Duty of Care" to the visiting aircraft owner and his property, more particularly with regard to the seccurity of any visiting aircraft left on the field overnight. . . so to keep the insurance cover affordable, valour is sacrificed on the altar of discretion. They just don't want the hassle of negative media attention when someone gets it spectacularly wrong . . . we've had three major crash jobbies in the past ten years, but ( looks around for a bit of wood to touch. . .) Nobody has become Dedded thus far,. . . ( couple of bloody close "Nearlies" though. . . .) Phil. Sounds like this one is an accident waiting to happen then. 1
Phil Perry Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 Thank you NEV. . . . For sending the C-182 POH link. . . . Had a good scan of that Ahhhh. . .memories, landed one at Lilydale (Vic) then sunk it in the mud at one end of the strip ! ! Took about six of us and some shovelling to get it rolling again. ( Not fitted with wheelspats luckily. . ) And ALDO. . . I could probably ( given a few hours practice ! ) LAND one quite safely on our strip, as I'm sure could you and a lot of other "Bushies" . . the problem would be to get it safely OUT again, with 3 Pax on a grass strip, even with no close trees, they accelerate quite well on tarmac; but notsagood on bumpyish grass. ( Later found that the 3 pax were Chinese students going to a private college here in Cannock which has a large number of students from that country. He wanted to drop 3 off, and bring three back. . . .+ books, iPads, + suitcase each. ( He landed it at Tatenhill, and the fuel guy there told me the thing was rammed to the gunnels with "Stuff" as well as passengers ! ! ! ) However, the commander did not, apparently, land downwind. It left again 4 hours later with a similar load ! No problem there, 800 metres hard, with another 400M not normally used. Only problem was 18NM in a taxi x 2, plus £45 + 20% VAT landing fee for a commercial operation . . . maybe THAT was what he was attempting to avoid ! ! Can't blame the guy for trying, and Also, I can't blame him for NOT crashing at our little airfield. . . . ( BTW,. . .I just realised that we ACTUALLY HAVE 350 metres on the strip I mentioned, but that it is in fact advertised in the airfield directory comics as 330. . . .) Phil
G-TOO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 "Later found that the 3 pax were Chinese students going to a private college here in Cannock which has a large number of students from that country. He wanted to drop 3 off, and bring three back. . . .+ books, iPads, + suitcase each". Uneffingbelievable!!!
Phil Perry Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 "Later found that the 3 pax were Chinese students going to a private college here in Cannock which has a large number of students from that country. He wanted to drop 3 off, and bring three back. . . .+ books, iPads, + suitcase each".Uneffingbelievable!!! Yes, and I still dunno why the pilot was Chinese as well ! maybe the students, or one or two of them, were related or summat,. . . .or they didn't trust a pommie pilot. . . who knows. . . . life is an odd place sometimes innit ?
facthunter Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I only sent the link to give a few figures. I think they were for max landing weight which they may well have been over and the technique required FULL braking so the surface would be critical as well as the approach path. The landing distance was only represented as a ground roll, from wheel contact. Useful info but not the whole picture. You don't need the risk.. Nev 1
G-TOO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Here's the last 182 I flew...the wee beastie :-) 1
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Author Posted October 6, 2015 I'll have to look up EGTB Mike, doesn't ring any bells. . . but maybe it's OOP NURTH of where I is. . . . reasonable distance from Rotherham ? nice aeroplane though. The POH sent by Nev shows a super -dooper glass cockpit picture,. . .just like summat out of Star Trot. All the models I've driven had steam powered clocks 'N' dials. Nev, you may remember a post I made a while back about the classic 1950s C-180, whose owner was carrying out a low level display authority renewal at Otherton, our manager being a CAA examiner for same. This pilot was in the very high hours range, ex military, and even with his surgical skill, his three, six minute slots / circuits & landings resulted in a handful of LOUD complaints to US, plus the local authority. These tests have now been shifted to a larger airfield. Our physical site restrictions are just too limited for normal category GA ops with average ( Bigdrome ) trained pilots [ no denigration intended ] I'm afraid. . . .as you say. . .not worth the risk. Phil
Marty_d Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 [ATTACH=full]38382[/ATTACH] Here's the last 182 I flew...the wee beastie :-) Looks a bit like a Legend. 2
G-TOO Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 EGTB...Wycombe air park/Booker where I got my wings many years ago in the wonderful PA38 Tomahawk or (Traumaheap) as we used to call it :cheezy grin:Here's the girl I solo'd in and particularly liked the spin training in the PA38 it was an eye opener hehe!
G-TOO Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 ok bit of a schoolboy error here forgot to put the D in my tag name G-TOO, I've searched but for the life of me I can't find out how....now no taking the p**s you lot cos I ain't fick roight! 1
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Author Posted October 6, 2015 ok bit of a schoolboy error here forgot to put the D in my tag name G-TOO, I've searched but for the life of me I can't find out how....now no taking the p**s you lot cos I ain't fick roight! Don't think that's editababblable mate,. . .so you're possibly stuck with it ! ! But nobody will notice, as Aussie GA aircraft have a VH - followed by just Three letters. Actually I didn't notice that either until you posted the enlarged photo of the Traumahawk thingy. . . . . ( 'arf blind R us TOO. . . ) *** A flying instructor friend told me the reason that the "Trauma" has such a high number ( 38 ) after the "PA" refers to the quantitiy of rotations before full "Anti-Spin" control input actually does anything. . . 1 1
Marty_d Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 ok bit of a schoolboy error here forgot to put the D in my tag name G-TOO, I've searched but for the life of me I can't find out how....now no taking the p**s you lot cos I ain't fick roight! Phil, is this man related to you?? Talks just the same! 2
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Author Posted October 6, 2015 Phil, is this man related to you?? Talks just the same! No. I have never met the bloke in my life, on my honour. . . but he seems to be on the same wavelength as what you is. . . . . Well,. . .me too I guess,. . . .I think we're all a bit doolally. ( Bear in mind he's from the North of England. . . . bit strange them lot. . .) 1
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Author Posted October 6, 2015 ok bit of a schoolboy error here forgot to put the D in my tag name G-TOO, I've searched but for the life of me I can't find out how....now no taking the p**s you lot cos I ain't fick roight! AHHH,. . .I figgered it out mate,. . . .The "G" and the "D" were painted reddish,. . .you must've failed the Ishihara plate test ( colour blindness ) so didn't notice the red coloured letteres,. . .my mate Jack had the same problem with traffic lights, . . .he sees red as Brown. . . . . gets him into a lot oa acceridents on the road,. . .mind you, what's much WORSE, is another friend who can't tell the difference between a tomato, a plum, or an orange,. . .but he's just Fruitblind, and they don't test you for that at the CAA medical centre. . . . . 1
Marty_d Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 No. I have never met the bloke in my life, on my honour. . . but he seems to be on the same wavelength as what you is. . . . .Well,. . .me too I guess,. . . .I think we're all a bit doolally. ( Bear in mind he's from the North of England. . . . bit strange them lot. . .) They are... we have friends in Skipton. I taught the kids to say "Ay-oop, trooble at Mill" before they met them in France last year. Went down a treat... 1 1
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Author Posted October 6, 2015 They are... we have friends in Skipton. I taught the kids to say "Ay-oop, trooble at Mill" before they met them in France last year. Went down a treat... Well, he's from Rotherham I gather,. . .so I'll bet he doesn't allow his Daughters to travel in Rotherham Taxis, as the drivers are all RoPers,. . .and like to "enrich" young white girls with their philosophy,. . .the score is 1400 so far. . . . . Sorry Ian. . .getting a bit political here, and this isn't the forum do do it in. . . . Phil
Marty_d Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 I didn't understand the reference so I googled Rotherham... that's bloody shocking.
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