shafs64 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 Its great news that you are getting close to your PPL. and it good to fly as a passenger some times. I went for a ride in a 182 on a CPL nav it was great to sit there and take in the view. And 30c in a 172 is HOT.
facthunter Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 It drops at 2 degrees/1,000 feet, so fly higher. Nev 1
Pearo Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 It drops at 2 degrees/1,000 feet, so fly higher. Nev Easier said than done when you have 18degrees at 6500' !!
facthunter Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 What's wrong with 18 degrees? Better than 31 on the deck. (Plus Tarmac temp). Taxi drivers in Brissy used to put the heat on when it was 24 degrees outside.. Nev
Pearo Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 What's wrong with 18 degrees? Better than 31 on the deck. (Plus Tarmac temp). Taxi drivers in Brissy used to put the heat on when it was 24 degrees outside.. Nev Well the air is more like 8500, and a wee little 172 with 2 solid blokes and full tanks does not like climbing at that altitude! But it goes to show that the science and math works, was 30 degrees on the ground (@400ft), 18 degrees at 6500. Using the standard lapse rates it should be 12 degrees cooler at 6500, which is 18 degrees!! Not bad eh?
facthunter Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Well, I legally took a doctor and patient to 14,500 to aid in whooping cough or something in one, in the 60's . The lapse rate can vary but usually it's pretty close . The SL temp ISA standard atmosphere is 15 degrees, so you are 16 degrees above that to start with raising your Density Altitude significantly, and that controls your climb performance, which you noticed. Nev
mAgNeToDrOp Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Regarding confidence, one thing that puts me off the turbulence is when it gets rough I can get airsick, especially if I haven't flown alot lately to build resistance/get used to it. :( Once nausea kicks in it's just not fun anymore. I'm sure it can get dangerous if the motion sickness get the better of you, it's a concern if Solo or passenger isn't a pilot. I guess gradually exposing yourself to it and flying often is the key.
facthunter Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 I can never really guarantee, as a passenger , I won't get pretty green. Same with a boat. IF I'm doing the flying actively I don't get nauseous. Time won't necessarily change it unless you do actually remove some of the causes. Being over aware of the aircraft's motion and anxiety and where you look can affect it. Nev
shafs64 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Posted November 20, 2015 I would agree the more we fly the better it will become for us nervous pot hole flyers. one of the instructor's at go fly asked me if I could see the bumps coming would it be easier.
facthunter Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Are you worried about control being lost or the wings coming off? (serious question). Nev
shafs64 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Posted November 20, 2015 Could be a bit of both Nev getting bumped around is out of my control. the way I can do that is not fly and that is not going to happen.
Geoff13 Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Yes being bumped around is out of your control, but the aircraft is still in your control and that is what matters.
shafs64 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Posted November 20, 2015 that's right Geoff. I thing the saying is fly the plane don't let It fly you.
facthunter Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 You let the plane move around a bit in turbulence. Don't expect it to be steady. Don't apply large control inputs in cruise. Another height might help and learn to read the conditions. If you have strong winds and mountain ridges you may get a few good thumps, down wind of. Lines of trees and sheds near the ground also. Convection, High ground temps, and high lapse rates are usually not present early in the day. Cumulus clouds of significant vertical development indicate instability, more likely in Spring etc. Nev 1
sparksdusty Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 All good options. I have a pax endorsement but will have to find a volunteer to come up with me LOL and caboolture has gliders so I could go up with them. Id come up with you. Would also help my fears. Im in Sydney though
sparksdusty Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Hi sparkdusty thank you for sharing its a hard subject to share and deal with. for my part I went up today and waited for it to get a bit warmer and lumpy and stayed in the circuit on purpose for an hour and played pucker factor. we are planning more of the same for next time and some other thing too. will update soon. I feel that's what I need to do. Just get used to it. I love flying so much just get horrible thoughts when i feel like I've lost control.
Soleair Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 It drops at 2 degrees/1,000 feet, so fly higher. Nev Nev, the dry adiabatic lapse rate is 3 degrees C per 1000 feet. Bruce
Pearo Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Nev, the dry adiabatic lapse rate is 3 degrees C per 1000 feet.Bruce Except we don't use the dry adiabatic rate, we use the ICAO defined standard atmosphere, which equated to about 2 degrees C per 1000ft. 15degC at MSL, -56.5degC at 36000ft. Temp difference is 71.5 from MSL to 36000ft, so that equates to about 0.00199 degrees/ft or 1.99degrees/1000ft. If you look at the ICAO docs, you will probably find a published environmental lapse rate, but I think you have to pay for those docs. 1
shafs64 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 I feel that's what I need to do. Just get used to it. I love flying so much just get horrible thoughts when i feel like I've lost control. Hi Spark dusty. I really feel you pain. for what its worth it gets better. and its hard to face sometime. you just want to runaway but that doesn't work for me. I think there is a school with a fox bat that has a BRS chute that might help your confidence
Jabiru7252 Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I think you focus too much on the fear. I went out in a Foxbat as a passenger on Sunday. Seemed quite rough to me. I asked the pilot what rating on a scale 1 to 10 was the turbulence and he said 4. I would have said 7. Just shows that it's very subjective and once you get used to it it becomes a non-issue. 1
sparksdusty Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Thanks. Makes sense. Im going to make an effort to get more lessons and aim for weather that will test me a little more. Thanks for your suggestions
facthunter Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 As far as losing control of a 3 axis plane in turbulence.. It's a problem at high cruising levels ( Coffin Corner for jets) or if you are near the ground (mini cyclone or dust devil), other wise the stability of most aircraft would have them fly along without crashing if you did nothing. What you try to do is keep an approximate desired attitude, that keeps the airspeed in the desired range, where it won't stall at one end and won't impose high airframe loads at the other.. and a heading within a range that keeps you pointing where you want to go. Your corrective inputs should be the smallest that will achieve the desired result and applied at the precise time to have the most effect, and released as the wing is moving in the required direction, so you don't over correct. Nev
shafs64 Posted November 25, 2015 Author Posted November 25, 2015 so there is less pilot induced turbulance 1
sparksdusty Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Thanks wish i could fly with you guys. I have a great instructor but i think i need to learn more about the theory of how a plane stays in flight
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