Riley Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Needing a replacement element for my Bracket air filter I went to their web page, obtained the contact details of their local authorized stockist/agent and then made an enquiry as to availibility and price. Was informed by the Perth agent that, (a) yes it was in local stocks (b) over-the-counter price was US$ 14.51 (converted) and © they wouldn't sell it to me because I didn't have an account with them ... cash or credit card won't cut it .... "no account - no sale"! I then phoned another local aviation supply house noted for their high 'convenience' prices and was quoted (US$) 13.78 for the same item! As a comparison, this filter element is listed by A/C Spruce at (US$) 7.95 (+ S&H). Now I have to ask, with examples like this, is it wonder that the Australian economy is suffering? I have written a letter to both the Mg Dr's of Bracket in the USA and Avia (Aust Agent) querying both the curious pricing anomolies and the more curious marketing strategy of "yes we have it but we won't sell it to you" Will I get a response? I shake my head. 1 3
Jaba-who Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 We have a similar problem with an aviation components business here in cairns but to add insult to injury they won't sell you anything unless you have an account AND they will only deal with you if the value of what you buy is greater than $150. When I was dealing with them it was a $30 minimum ( and no account needed) and I spent a few times buying crap I didn't need ( a couple of bottles of oil or a roll of lock wire. Etc) because I needed the other thing urgently and it was less than $30. When they went to $150 and only on an account I stopped dealing with them. I have a vague idea they have now added a minimum yearly turnover to maintain an account as well. They obviously don't actually want to deal with small fry. 1 1
Sloper Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 And then they cry when they dont make any money and go bust. regards Bruce 4 1
Yenn Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 You at least did get a reply, I have tried to get Stitts materials in Australia, but the firm that advertises them won't even answer an email. Locally in my nearest town it is not aviation materials that are not available. Things like work shorts for example. i tried 3 work gear shops, their total range of work shorts was less that a dozen pairs in khaki and only one pair in my size. Next time I go to Bundy for anything. 1
Guest ozzie Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Can happen in lots of retail areas. I needed a coil for my ride on mower engine and here the cheapest was 170.00 plus postage. Found the same unit online in Texas USA for 45.00 plus postage. No brainer where i bought it from.
ev17ifly2 Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Needing a replacement element for my Bracket air filter I went to their web page, obtained the contact details of their local authorized stockist/agent and then made an enquiry as to availibility and price. Was informed by the Perth agent that, (a) yes it was in local stocks (b) over-the-counter price was US$ 14.51 (converted) and © they wouldn't sell it to me because I didn't have an account with them ... cash or credit card won't cut it .... "no account - no sale"! I then phoned another local aviation supply house noted for their high 'convenience' prices and was quoted (US$) 13.78 for the same item! As a comparison, this filter element is listed by A/C Spruce at (US$) 7.95 (+ S&H). Now I have to ask, with examples like this, is it wonder that the Australian economy is suffering? I have written a letter to both the Mg Dr's of Bracket in the USA and Avia (Aust Agent) querying both the curious pricing anomolies and the more curious marketing strategy of "yes we have it but we won't sell it to you" Will I get a response? I shake my head. Unfortunately Riley from my many years in retails sales and marketing you would be the type of customer we don't want. Aviall will supply you however you need to create an account and agree to their terms. Same as thousands of other online sales companies. In so far as the pricing deparities are concerned, in this country it is illegal for the distributor to dictate the retails price. It is called Retail Price Maintenance and the ACCC is red hot on it. Given that you don't know the landed cost to the Australian distributor they may not be operating on exorbitant margins. Just as a guess, do you shop Aldi. Service, Quality, Price. - pick 2 because you can't have all three !!! 2 1 2
Riley Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 Unfortunately Riley from my many years in retails sales and marketing you would be the type of customer we don't want. Aviall will supply you however you need to create an account and agree to their terms. Same as thousands of other online sales companies. In so far as the pricing deparities are concerned, in this country it is illegal for the distributor to dictate the retails price. It is called Retail Price Maintenance and the ACCC is red hot on it. Given that you don't know the landed cost to the Australian distributor they may not be operating on exorbitant margins.Just as a guess, do you shop Aldi. Service, Quality, Price. - pick 2 because you can't have all three !!! Then you my good friend, with your many years in retail sales/marketing and your bald-faced statement that "you are the type of customer that we don't want" can rightfully claim your small share of responsibility for the economic woe that the country is currently experiencing. Being an old-fashioned fart who requires quality, service and fair pricing in all manner of dispensing my money, I generally (tho not always) achieve all three. And finally, with regards to Aldi, to my knowledge we don't have any in WA therefore your snide jibe has been wasted. Love & kisses and have a nice day. 1 9
nickduncs84 Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Needing a replacement element for my Bracket air filter I went to their web page, obtained the contact details of their local authorized stockist/agent and then made an enquiry as to availibility and price. Was informed by the Perth agent that, (a) yes it was in local stocks (b) over-the-counter price was US$ 14.51 (converted) and © they wouldn't sell it to me because I didn't have an account with them ... cash or credit card won't cut it .... "no account - no sale"! I then phoned another local aviation supply house noted for their high 'convenience' prices and was quoted (US$) 13.78 for the same item! As a comparison, this filter element is listed by A/C Spruce at (US$) 7.95 (+ S&H). Now I have to ask, with examples like this, is it wonder that the Australian economy is suffering? I have written a letter to both the Mg Dr's of Bracket in the USA and Avia (Aust Agent) querying both the curious pricing anomolies and the more curious marketing strategy of "yes we have it but we won't sell it to you" Will I get a response? I shake my head. Are you saying that a part costs $5 more here than the US? Sounds reasonable. It had to get here. What am I missing? 1
Riley Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 Are you saying that a part costs $5 more here than the US? Sounds reasonable. It had to get here. What am I missing? Nick, I wasn't having a grizzle at the actual price of the goods (tho it was unusual that the same item from a recognized 'top shop' was cheaper than from the authorized agent). Having put a number of AUF/RAA aircraft back in the air over the years I'm well innured to and have to accept the reality of price inflation for overseas goods landed in Oz. My whinge is based on the attitude of "go away with your piddley order, we don't want/need nor will we accept your business". Believe me, there is nothing coming from USA that is only $5 more in OZ than the advertised USA price. As an example, have a look at a packet of split pins from A/C Spruce and see what the final cost is by the time it is landed here. It's an anomoly we have to live with. cheers Riley 1 1
Kyle Communications Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 The problem is Riley you are dealing with a wholesale outlet essentially NOT a retail outlet. The radio business is the same. Try to go to GME and buy a UHF radio...they will not sell it to you because you dont have a account with them. How do you get a account?...well you commit to buying around $50,000 a year in product from them . Other than that you go to TJM or Autobarn or one of the other retailers. Aviall are a wholesaler not a retailer. Edmo is another wholesaler you basically need a an account with them. Other than that you go to ASAP aircraft spares or old Rod at Skyshop or Mendelsons etc 1
DrZoos Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 They do this for a number of reasons. 1. They want and need retailers to stock thier gear, so they sell the high volume stuff and try to encourage low volume buyer to go to a retailer 2. They charge as much or higher than retailers, because they dont want to undercut thier retailers, promote discounting, or have the small volume customers coming to them on price... 3. The make you set up an account,because most people wont bother and will got to the retailer... 4. They will sell to you if you pay full price and set up an account , because then they know your genuine and probably cant find a retailer elsewhere Domt take offence , but the easiest way to improve most buisiness is to sack the smallest, high maintenance low margin non recurring customers, ....they consume time and money thats irreplaceable.they consume time that needs to be spent on high margin repeat customers and finding new high margin repeat customers or niche markets/ products 1 1 1
Admin Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 This is the 2nd reason why I started Clear Prop. 10 or so years ago this same thread topic came up here in the forums. Many "recreational" aviators were not able to get cheap prices unless they were a business and could open an account and promise to spend x dollars to maintain an account. I thought that with the collective here, i could use my company to open accounts and supply with minimal margins to get cheaper prices for recreational aviators, provide the service on the side whilst at the same time offsetting the costs of providing this "collective". However, in theory this was good for everyone but i also came up against supplier issues and it became a big job with nothing really in return. So I thought that if it was this much of an effort I may as well deal direct with the actual manufacturer. Whilst still having the same problems I could at least get things even cheaper and pass these extra savings on to you. But, there came more problems with the minimum quantities I had to purchase which in fact adds extra cost in financial terms i.e. capital costs. I now have what I think is a reasonable balance between manufacturers and distributors although I still get tripped up many times on supply. In reality it is most of the time not worth the pain and suffering, the effort and detriment to ones health in many cases but I still believe that whilst it may not help everyone, the effort does help some which is why my wife and I still do it for this site. Incidentally, for those that knew of the saga I have just had with the Recreational Flying headsets, well yesterday another 100 finally arrived, hooray. I have had thousands and thousands of dollars tied up for months waiting for them 1 3
ev17ifly2 Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Then you my good friend, with your many years in retail sales/marketing and your bald-faced statement that "you are the type of customer that we don't want" can rightfully claim your small share of responsibility for the economic woe that the country is currently experiencing. Being an old-fashioned fart who requires quality, service and fair pricing in all manner of dispensing my money, I generally (tho not always) achieve all three. And finally, with regards to Aldi, to my knowledge we don't have any in WA therefore your snide jibe has been wasted. Love & kisses and have a nice day. Fair enough, I hear what you're saying . The maxim of Service, Quality, Price has obviously escaped you. It means that if you require top Quality and excellent Service don't expect a cheap price. Eg. At Aldi you can get a cheap Price and reasonable Quality however it comes at a reduced Service. You have to pack your own goods and there is a credit card surcharge. Just r ember this when you are trying to screw down some struggling Aussie retailer.
Marty_d Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Unfortunately Riley from my many years in retails sales and marketing you would be the type of customer we don't want. Er... a customer that wants to buy an item and pay by cash or credit card? Yeah, can't go having customers like that. 1 1
nickduncs84 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 This is the 2nd reason why I started Clear Prop. 10 or so years ago this same thread topic came up here in the forums. Many "recreational" aviators were not able to get cheap prices unless they were a business and could open an account and promise to spend x dollars to maintain an account. I thought that with the collective here, i could use my company to open accounts and supply with minimal margins to get cheaper prices for recreational aviators, provide the service on the side whilst at the same time offsetting the costs of providing this "collective".However, in theory this was good for everyone but i also came up against supplier issues and it became a big job with nothing really in return. So I thought that if it was this much of an effort I may as well deal direct with the actual manufacturer. Whilst still having the same problems I could at least get things even cheaper and pass these extra savings on to you. But, there came more problems with the minimum quantities I had to purchase which in fact adds extra cost in financial terms i.e. capital costs. I now have what I think is a reasonable balance between manufacturers and distributors although I still get tripped up many times on supply. In reality it is most of the time not worth the pain and suffering, the effort and detriment to ones health in many cases but I still believe that whilst it may not help everyone, the effort does help some which is why my wife and I still do it for this site. Incidentally, for those that knew of the saga I have just had with the Recreational Flying headsets, well yesterday another 100 finally arrived, hooray. I have had thousands and thousands of dollars tied up for months waiting for them I think this is exactly the point. Anyone who runs a business does it to make a profit. That can have implications that aren't always favourable for everyone. While it's noble of you to try and set up a shop to use the community to save people money, from what you are saying, you have now realised that it takes a lot of work and stress to run. This is true of any business and why you need to have a structure that allows you to make a decent profit. If you half the amount of money you think you're going to make and double the costs and time required, it's usually a lot closer to reality. As DrZoos said, there are many valid reasons why businesses decide to do what they do and that doesn't make them bad businesses. In fact it often separates the good businesses from the bad ones. In this case, I can only assume that there are very good reasons why they don't want to accept smaller orders. Perhaps it's as simple as the admin required to fill and support those orders and knowing that it's not worth it for them? So Marty, I can tell you that it doesn't matter what business we're talking about, any business owner will tell you that just because a customer is willing or able to pay with cash or credit card, doesn't necessarily mean that they are a customer that you want. And Ian, if I were you, based purely on what you are saying, I'd either shut the pilot store down OR I'd increase the prices significantly so that you are making a healthy margin on each sale. At least enough to fund capital outlays and make it worth your time. There are plenty of other ways that you can differentiate yourselves other than price. Just my opinion 2
Marty_d Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 In this age of instant reviews and social media, bad customer service will cost you a lot more. Good reputation is hard to build and easy to lose. In this case it may have been better for the person he spoke to to say "Sorry mate, we are wholesale only, however - if you leave me your number, I'll find you the nearest retail outlet that stocks that part and get back to you." That could have been a bit more helpful than "if you don't have an account we can't sell it to you." 2
fly_tornado Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 retailing might pickup now that the AUD has sunk so much, everyone less inclined to buy from the US now that the price has gone up 1
nickduncs84 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 In this age of instant reviews and social media, bad customer service will cost you a lot more. Good reputation is hard to build and easy to lose. True to a certain extent, but let me tell you, as long as you have customers, you will have unhappy customers. Fact of life. Much like dead animals on a farm. Be true to yourself because you'll never succeed in keeping everyone happy.
Admin Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 But also remember that with good comes bad. Many of social media comments are setups by other stores or social media companies that are paid to destroy people and entities through social media. We see right here on Recreational Flying people registering with fake information with just pure sinister intent. Just look at Apple who employ people to blog negative things about competing hardware...i suppose they all do Social media i believe is now at a point that it is of very little value because you dont know what is behind the content
ev17ifly2 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Some of my experiences with retail customers - Customer 1. "My gizmo didn't come with a ops manual and I can't believe that you don't carry them." "Where did you purchase the unit from sir, perhaps they can assist" "That's why I'm here, I bought it online from Zambia" Customer 2. " I didn't want to pay your price so I bought it online" Same customer a week later " just wondering if you have any jobs going as my son has just finished year 12 and is looking for work" Customer 3 "I have this brand new unit which has the wrong software for this region can you upgrade it. It's new so why should I pay to have it upgraded" "Where did you purchase it sir" "Online from the U.S. They said any dealer over here will upgrade it FOC" Customer 4. "Thanks for spending the last hour of your time explaining the operation to me, however I can another outlet in Melbourne $7 cheaper" So, Marty and Riley if you wonder why I'm bitter and twisted...... PS, Riley, I'm a bit taken back by your "love and kisses". I don't know you. Maybe we should date a bit before taking the next step. Cheers to all 1 1
Marty_d Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 True to a certain extent, but let me tell you, as long as you have customers, you will have unhappy customers. Fact of life. Much like dead animals on a farm. Be true to yourself because you'll never succeed in keeping everyone happy. Possibly true but let me give you an example. Whenever I travel I look at accommodation websites (eg Tripadvisor) and read the reviews of any place I'm looking at. If I see a review that says the place is dirty, or the owners unhelpful, or anything else that may indicate the stay will be less than wonderful, that gets crossed off the list. Yes some reviews are BS but you can usually tell by the tone of the other reviews... if 99% are glowing and one is downright negative then you consider that an outlier and ignore it. But the fact is, peoples opinions matter and are more accessible than ever, so if you treat any potential customer with less than acceptable helpfulness, they will let everyone else know. 2
Yenn Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Unhappy customers? How could they be unhappy? Most of the retailers where I live don't carry stock, but they can always order it in. That means I take a trip to town, find what I want is unavailable, get it ordered in and then have to take another trip o town to collect it. Even then it may not be as ordered or work. Just bought a starter switch from an auto electrical retailer. Got it home and I find it is normally closed. Manufacturers fault i am told. How could that be? Another trip to town. That is the reason that goods are bought on the internet. I built 2 aircraft mostly with US parts as they are too difficult to get in Australia. 3
Robbo Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I have stayed in tonnes of places, one listing had all negative reviews (about 150) I stayed there and it was one of the best places I have ever stayed at. Go figure!
Methusala Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 If a supplier of aircraft covering materials treated me like a piece of walking, talking dog s**t when I wanted to buy some stuff from them, and if I handed over a finance type card to pay for what they grudgingly sold me at an astronomical mark-up on the real price in the US (as found easily by inquiry on the internet). And if they then miss-keyed on the card and misplaced a decimal point would I do the *right thing* and alert them to the ridiculous mistake that they may have made... would I? Could I ????? Of course I would. Sometimes accidents happen.
Marty_d Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 If a supplier of aircraft covering materials treated me like a piece of walking, talking dog s**t when I wanted to buy some stuff from them, and if I handed over a finance type card to pay for what they grudgingly sold me at an astronomical mark-up on the real price in the US (as found easily by inquiry on the internet). And if they then miss-keyed on the card and misplaced a decimal point would I do the *right thing* and alert them to the ridiculous mistake that they may have made... would I? Could I ????? Of course I would. Sometimes accidents happen. Would it depend on which direction the decimal was misplaced? 1
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