Kogalymavia EI-ETJ

[Marty_d]

To put it simply... "hmmm... we can either tell the world that we f*cked up the repair of our aircraft, or we can just blame it on those ISIS morons who are quite happy to accept responsibility anyway..."

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Sounds like the carrier doesn't have a great record... hard landing that injured 46 passengers and not paying their staff for 2 months!http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/egypt-crash-jet-flown-by-airline-with-chequered-record/ar-BBmKjhp?ocid=News

there is are sanctions against Russia due to Ukraine/MH17 affecting financial transactions

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28400218

 

 

[facthunter]

Be surprised if the boxes didn't tell all. Depends on who is telling the story after that. If it's ISIS getting back at them, Putin is not likely to advertise their exposure and lack of effective security. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

If it is ISIS maybe watch for mushrooms.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

If it is ISIS maybe watch for mushrooms.

I would hope that no one is that stupid over anything to start dropping nuc's....

David

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Thermobarics can make a decent mushroom.

 

Not something the US has done much development into, they seem to have preferred FAEs.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Who said anything about Political leaders being smart (or not stupid).

 

If it was ISIS my bet is Putin will have to be seen to do something and it will need to be a statement.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

radar tracking of the first 30 seconds, lost a lot of speed very very quickly.

 

wouldn't want to be at 70knots at 28,000

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

Heard an interesting report on ISIS by Michael Weiss ("ISIS: Inside the army of terror", Big Ideas, RN - http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/isis3a-inside-the-army-of-terror/6867342)

 

If he's right then ISIS is not the worst regime in Syria, Assad himself has caused more torture, bloodshed and sheer barbarity than ISIS could imagine.

 

Trouble is the whole ME is a constantly changing cesspool. Today's "good guys" are tomorrow's "enemy". We either need far more cultural and language training for any pair of boots we (the Western "we") send in there, or we should all pull out and leave them to their own devices.

 

Saudi Arabia for example... a supposed "ally" to the US for decades, with one of the worst human rights records in the world. 100 times more beheadings than ISIS, floggings, zero religious tolerance, yet somehow they're not only on, but chairing, the UN Human Rights Council.

 

Renewable energy will have 2 major positive impacts IMHO - for the environment, and to remove power and influence from the players in the Middle East in general and Saudi Arabia in particular.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

i will be extremely suspicious of all findings in this case if it involves a bomb, or is made to look like it did...Too many major interests at stake here to trust anyone, and the propoganda by all sides is already showing that..

Too right. If Russia wants to step up its fight in Syria then ISIS did it. If it wants to disentangle itself from the Middle East mess, it was an accident. Egypt will say whatever it thinks will serve its interest.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

"anonymous sources" usually means the US is taking the advantage and putting out propaganda.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/04/africa/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/index.html

 

 

[willedoo]

This will be devastating for Egypt's economy.

 

I've just been reading that there's 80,000 stranded Russian tourists in Egypt at present. All flights from Russia have been halted and they're using thirteen Russian airlines to evacuate the tourists with hand luggage only. Other baggage will be screened and follow later on cargo planes.

 

Add that 80,000 to the thousands of British and other tourists, multiply by the average spend, and that's a lot of money. I don't think Egypt can just absorb that sort of financial loss.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

They showed picture of a door, not sure which one but it defiantly had signs of shrapnel hitting it like when you have an explosion and then the noise of an explosion on one of the black boxes so it looks like there was a bomb on board, if proved conclusively I guess back you Mr Putin....what will he do...send it ground troops to deal with the cowards...

 

David

 

 

[facthunter]

Putin has had problems with neighboring Chetnya some time back, and he responded by having a war. Part of his aura and mass appeal is being strong and in control. If someone can hide a bomb and put a Russian plane out of the sky, it is a dent in his armour. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Putin might love this...he needs every excuse he can get to look like a pillar of strength, given he has decimated the economy with his cold war leadership

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Well I think it is exactly the right time for him to show the Russian people and more the point the weak kneed yanks that he is a strong leader and will make the hard decisions... none of them will defeat the ISIS scourge only by the air, they need to put boots on the ground otherwise they are just fooling themselves...the yanks have done nothing all the time they have been there, well except for leaving all there weapons etc behind for all the terrorists to use against them and the other Allies....

 

David

 

 

[facthunter]

I am not sure he will love it as how does he deal with it? Boots on the ground? How would THAT work?. Long war in Afghanistan with nothing gained . Admitted the Yanks armed the mujahadine which worked with Al Quaida. I agree with the rest of your comment. A lot of money vanishes too , (like the winter Olympics) The Country is virtually broke.. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

IS have taken a page from the al-Queda playbook here and use economic forces to do some of the fighting. Sending Kogalymavia broke in the process

 

 

[DrZoos]

I wouldn't put it past Putin and his crew to have had 1st hand involvement....they need any excuse they can get to interfere directly within the middle east without risking more sanctions , including Egypt, Yemen, Libya and possibly even Saudi Arabia...

 

There are just toooooooo many issues, motives and unknowns.... but one thing is for sure... if conflict settles, Russians will focus on economic and social issues and Putin would be doomed... so until then he needs as much conflict as possible as a major diversion. By the time time the middle east settles Putin will be dead or retired. Actually im only 43 and I would guess i may well be dead by then as well.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

It helps fund his 2 daughters education, opulent living conditions and their general fun in Europe where they both live...didn't ever think they would live in Russia do you....

 

Putin will not disappear anytime soon...the normal Russian love him..he is their hero..he is not going anywhere in the near future...

 

David

 

 

[Marty_d]

By the time time the middle east settles Putin will be dead or retired. Actually im only 43 and I would guess i may well be dead by then as well.

I think the Sun is due to explode in about 4 billion years. I would give it 50/50 odds as to whether or not there'll be peace in the Middle East by then.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you look at the way the middle east has evolved, Peace is not possible. The Arab world is based on top down governance and vast gap between rich and poor and most of all has a large % of young unemployed people with nothing to do but think rebellion and wish to die as a martyr for different versions of Islam . Israel is based on a premise they live in a place god chose for them to occupy and they are his chosen people. Saudi money has moved all over the globe promoting the wahhabi version of Islam

 

 

[DrZoos]

Well if teaching and parenting is a good guide....it is absolutely impossible to control maniacs with smiling faces and pats on the back....

 

I recently read a fantastic article explaining in depth why the US foreign policy of trying to impose democracy on the middle east will always fail..and it basically used studies and history that shows repeatedly that certain types of people cannot be lead by or governed by certain types of leaders... it argued that whilst the west will never understand , accept or want dictators, that they may be the only way to govern such hot beds of violence and extreme political and religious convictions...and then its wwas exacerbated by the fact most these areas not only have extreme beliefs and convictions , but they have tribal warfare generations deep, with good reasons to fear for life and have complete mistrust and disgust in political opponents...

 

 

[willedoo]

Putin has had problems with neighboring Chetnya some time back, and he responded by having a war. Part of his aura and mass appeal is being strong and in control. If someone can hide a bomb and put a Russian plane out of the sky, it is a dent in his armour. Nev

Nev, Chechnya is not a neighboring country. It's part of the Russian Federation and has the same relationship with the RF as Queensland has with the Commonwealth of Australia. It's been a part of Russia for about 250 years and has a mainly Muslim population. Sections of it are pro Moscow and others are separatists, with a section of Jihadists also wanting independence.

 

Whether any country has the right to fight separatists to maintain the integrity of their borders is another question, I suppose. The American Civil War comes to mind. I think if half of one of our States tried to separate by violent means, our Prime Minister would be seen to be strong and in control by putting the rebellion down.

 

I guess there's two distinct camps in Chechnya; whether it's Sunni against Shia, I don't know. When the Russian intervention in Syria first started, Chechen Muslim forces tried to volunteer to fight Islamic State as ground forces, but the federal Government declined their offer.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[Spooks]

Latest in the UK is that they think it was "90% chance of a bomb" that was built by British jihadists

 

Hardly surprising when you hear of British troops often coming from the same town as some of the Taliban/militants they fought in Afghanistan, Iraq etc.