Jabiru ?4784 mayday call landed paddock near Bordertown

[Oscar]

Quote from Rod Stiff last year in Sport Pilot magazine Dec 2015 “I have tried to build a strong and safe aircraft and I reluctantly boast that in 23 years no one has been killed or seriously injured as a result of my doing,” he said at the time

Dave: That quote from Rod Stiff needs a little bit of additional information. I believe that he is correct in his statement insofar as it goes with regard to proven circumstances.

 

Of the - AFAIK - 5 deaths in Australia in Jabiru powered Jabiru airframes, three are definitely CFIT. I believe there is one - not all that long ago - that has yet to be explained, and one that was a Jabiru airframe with a Lycoming (??) transplant ( out-of -fuel?).

 

Again, AFAIK, there have been zero deaths or even serious injuries from airframe failure nor from the result of a crash-landing after engine failure. People have walked/ hopped / limped away from Jabirus that have been amazingly demolished following the engine ceasing to turn the propellor.

 

In 2014, the actual incidence of 'engine failure' for Jabiru engines was less than 2% - not 5% - according to the 'actual' data used by CASA to justify its action. I've seen the CASA data sheet, and I reckon 17 failures are 'a reasonable conclusion' from the fairly scant report data. Rod claims 12, RAA hasn't stated a number but has come out strongly that 'CASA has not undertaken rigorous analysis' of the data. The CASA data compilation is a disgrace, and it would come under serious criticism - along the lines of the Pel-Air Senate investigation - if our senior regulators could be ar$ed to follow it up..

 

I've seen the results of the crash of a 'high-performance' carbon-fibre ultralight - the Sting crash at Goulburn. (co-incidentally following the catastrophic failure of the Rotax engine). Two fatalities, in an airframe that could have hardly been worse-damaged by an RPG. This was NOT a high-speed CFIT, but a forced landing in inhospitable terrain; I have not the slightest doubt that anybody who could have viewed that wreckage would step into, or to allow their loved ones to take-off in one.

 

Jabs bounce through the countryside absorbing energy and shedding bits. But the occupants get out alive and generally with very little harm. If you are happy to bet your life ( which is what you do) on the absolute reliability of a Rotax engine - good luck to you, I hope it works out. However, if you are a bit of a 'two-bob each way' person, then having a Jab airframe around you is the statistically best chance you could have if the noisy thing up the front stops being noisy.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

A mate of mine ran off the road in a Lotus Europa at high speed back in the 1970s, into a rocky paddock. The fibreglass body shed bits all over the place, and the largest part left was the engine. But he was not seriously hurt. So the idea that a Jab will do the same makes sense to me.

 

 

[gandalph]

Oscar, I believe that there was an instance of structural failure of a Jab Airframe (in Europe) either last year or the year before where, if my memory hasn't failed me, it was determined that the pilot got involved in severe convective turbulence and the wings detached from the fuselage. Pilot error or bad luck? Who knows, but we do know that thunderstorms have pulled much larger airframes apart so it's a bit hard even for jabbarats to blame that one on Jabiru.

 

 

[facthunter]

You can have very high loads imposed if you lose control and build up speed Having much above 8G ultimate for that class of aircraft is allowing for the most rare of occurrences, beyond that which would normally happen. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Yep, I believe that is correct. In fact, I think it was in the same general area ( or maybe a similar geographical area with similar weather characteristics) that that Pipistrel had the wings sheared off short and landed safely under the BRS fairly recently? And in both cases, I think, VFR-rated pilots caught in IMC, so the potential for exceeding VNE, fairly high.

 

Absolutely extreme weather can overtask practically anything bar mountains. VNE isn't just something figured by holding a wetted finger up into the wind..

 

Possibly more instructive for potential owners of small aircraft in Australia, is their max-rough airspeed AND the appropriate gust speed applied to the certification/ certifying standard. Australian max. gust speeds are somewhat higher than (at least) the older JAR/EASA standards, I believe.

 

 

[Camel]

Nobody has ever died in a Jab, unlike the many fatalities in other LSAs. We are taught to glide land at 60 Knts. I would rather be glide landing a Jab than most other airframes. 12 people died last year out of the 10 000 member RAA community including experienced pilots doing things they should have known better than attempting. I just dont get the Jab stigma when they have a proven track record of being the safest LSAs in the sky. Yes, 5% of the Jab engines had a failure in 2014, but several people died and none beacause of a Jab.

Nicely said Dave and the Jab bashers will give you heaps, I have owned two Jabs and flown many others and flown Rotax powered aircraft that I like very much, Jabs do need to be monitored carefully which is admititly not nessecary with a lot of other engines but I accept this and like the jab engine. I find my J230 a compromise as it has space, speed and power, monitored carefully during flight and climb to allow sufficient cooling should give good service. The Jab engine does need improvements but that's progress. My thoughts are if you think you can trash an air cooled motor and think it won't let you down is a big mistake, my lycoming powered C172 suffered a cracked head soon after I bought it and very expensive repair, my Jab 3300 will get a top overhaul soon as a matter of insurance to my peace of mind and due to the fact this can be done at a reasonable cost makes it a good choice compared to others, like I have said before it always comes back to affordability and Jabiru have a slogan than reflects that " keeping flying affordable" and the RAA mission is to keep flying affordable and if you want fully Certified, LAME maintained CASA scrutinised aircraft join the GA ranks and fly heavy metal, I've been there and still hold a current PPL and am a dedicated supporter of RAA and am happy to fly rag and tube two strokes too. If anybody picks on Jabs they obviously don't like two strokes, they also need care and attention and will give reliable service if treated right but as told many years ago "it's not if but when" it will let you down, so maintain and care will save your back side, Jabs glide very well and trikes only half as good although don't need much space to land for a trike, learn to land short, very short and it may save you in any aircraft !

 

I would love to see the Jab Man improve his engine as it will only get better, without Jabiru things will get worse much worse ! Happy and safe flying to all !

 

 

[facthunter]

Good thoughts Camel. A realistic summation. Nev

 

 

[Steve Donald]

I have landed power out in many paddocks near Bordertown, in a glider admittedly.I fail to see the excitement here. The safety feature of all our aircraft is the low landing speed, NOT the engine always working. And many paddocks around Bordertown are as good as many landing fields.

Just so long as the pilot was allowed enough height to plan a proper outlanding then there never was a danger, only an inconvenience. I just wish our "safety" authority understood this, but I think they are too dumb.

Gota love Glider pilots every flight ends with a forced landing.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There is a downside to that. Ex glider pilots don't think about doing a "go around " and sometimes they should.

 

 

[turboplanner]

There is a downside to that. Ex glider pilots don't think about doing a "go around " and sometimes they should.

The glider pilots and ex glider pilots stand out on this forum because of their lack of understanding about powered flight; much the same as a golfer, cricketer, football player, basketball player and squash player are good at their own sports, but don't have a lifetime's understanding of other sports.

 

 

[johnm]

- a glider pilot is a 'push bike rider'

 

- a powered pilot is a 'petrol head'

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes two different sports each as good as the other, although if you can't put fuel in it, it's not really sport.

 

 

[facthunter]

ALL pilots must land at some stage, once they have gotten into the air.. A go round is not really able to be able to be performed by a glider in normal circumstances. That's why they have a priority for landing as does a powered pilot in an emergency. Fire etc. Not many gliders catch fire in flight or after crashing, so in that respect are a lot safer.. Nev