Throttle control

[erd72]

Hi,

 

I plan to change my icp throttle controls for a better ... (more smooth and with a good and reliable locking system).

 

Could you advise one which is plug and play ?

 

Thx

 

 

[rankamateur]

Are you going to try and preserve the dual controls or just use one in the middle?

 

 

[erd72]

I want To keep the dual controls and just change the 2 control handles for a push pull with micrometric locking system but i did'nt fund the right product. The icp is unpleasant (912 takes rev in short or when you use flap handle)

 

I Will also change the carburator Spring

 

 

[Ultralights]

the only change i made to the throttle control was to make the carby on the right hand side, go to the throttle on the right hand side, so both cables are the same length. they are still connected and move as one as usual. just re-routed the cable under the firewall and connected it to the throttle bar directly behind it, rather than run acrosss the airbox t the left hand side.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I used a similar system but changed the grips used to metal ones and also made like wingnuts on the outside. Check out this page on my blog and you will see what I used. It works great..I have no issues with slipping throttle at all

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/another-new-savannah-xl-on-its-way.10493/page-18

 

 

[erd72]

Thank you !

 

Mark, is it a standard locking and sliding system ? do you know the trade and ref ? I could go on this way (the simplest).

 

I saw also the post http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/my-sav-s-throttles.111309/

 

But i don't know what kind of controls Rick use (Push pull + locking ?). Rick, if you are reading ?...

 

I had a look on Mc farlane and acs products catalogue but not easy (for me ;-)) to find the right product plug on play on a savannah S... I don't see a rigid wire + locking device, this one should be nice but with a rigid wire

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/controls_00throttle/controlsMC6150a.php

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Wire%2C-Cable-%26-Accessories/Cable-Accessories/Cable-Glands%2C-Grommets-%26-Ties/IP68-Nickel-Plated-Copper-Cable-Glands-5-to-10mm-Pack-of-2/p/HP0746

 

These are very common especially at electrical trade shops that sell wire and switchboards and circuit breakers for your electricity box. I like the solid rods to control the carbs as there is far less issue with carb balance when using the cables the way they are. I will probably change mine to this method eventually. But you need then some sort of stiff metal cable throttle control like the Mcperson

 

 

[rick morawski]

Hi erd72

 

I used the A820 friction lock/ solid wire control from aircraft spruce, part no. 05-09436

 

In your original post you said you wanted something that's "plug and play", these controls are not that. They require a fair bit of work to fit.

 

 

[erd72]

Thank you Rick, Is had a look on the A-820, is it a complete solid wire from the handle to the torque tube cranck ? or a mix cable + solid wire ?

 

I saw on your post that you made a modification on the firewall crossing.

 

Thanks for your explanations Mark, in parallele, i will look for that, we call that in french "presse étoupe"

 

Eric

 

 

[rick morawski]

Thank you Rick, Is had a look on the A-820, is it a complete solid wire from the handle to the torque tube cranck ? or a mix cable + solid wire ?I saw on your post that you made a modification on the firewall crossing.

Thanks for your explanations Mark, in parallele, i will look for that, we call that in french "presse étoupe"

 

Eric

Solid wire

 

 

[erd72]

So it means that it is only neccessary to creat a new connection on the torque tube cranck like you did, and probably to warp of the solid wire to have the same shape than the original.

 

Thx

 

 

[Hasse]

Hi erd72I used the A820 friction lock/ solid wire control from aircraft spruce, part no. 05-09436

In your original post you said you wanted something that's "plug and play", these controls are not that. They require a fair bit of work to fit.

Hej Rick,

I like your throttle "solution" and will try it but there are two things that I can't figure out. First, where did you find the device that you used to anchor the friction cable and pass it through the fire wall? Secondly, where did you find the neat wire stop that you used to anchor the friction cable end to the main axle arm? Are these parts to be found commercialy or did you made them yourself? Any hint is appreciated because the original ICP throttle control does not make me happy.

 

 

[rick morawski]

Hi Hasse,

 

All the parts came from aircraft spruce-

 

the cable outer grip part no. 05-16250 on the firewall (i did use a swivelling one but can't find the part no for that one)

 

the inner wire gripper part no. 05-16245.

 

Cheers

 

Rick

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Rick where did you source the ball links and the rods also the threaded ends for the rods and the extensions for the throttle bar. I was talking about vibration affecting the solid rod install but with a ring mount the engine hardly moves . The bed mount is a different story though, the engine moves quite a bit from the ones I have seen

 

 

[rick morawski]

Rick where did you source the ball links and the rods also the threaded ends for the rods and the extensions for the throttle bar. I was talking about vibration affecting the solid rod install but with a ring mount the engine hardly moves . The bed mount is a different story though, the engine moves quite a bit from the ones I have seen

you can get it all from spruce

Spherical bearings - p/no MB-3 (male left hand thread 3/16 unf). p/no MM-3 (male right hand thread 3/16 unf)

 

AN315-3R locknut r/h, AN315-3L locknut l/h

 

connecting rod/tube - cromo tube 1/4"O/D .035" wall p/no 03-00300

 

Worked out the length of the tube ( from memory 300mm one side, 320 the other, but check), tapped out the tube l/h one end, r/h one end, boltedto carb lever and throttle torque tube arm with an3 bolts and locknuts.

 

The stepped washer on the carb throttle lever protrudes a bit and has to be filed down just a little so the bolt tightens down onto the lever arm and the center of the bearing then takes the rotation.

 

I used the cromo tube early on but later have changed to 6061-t651 5/16" hex bar, which of course you have to drill and tap whereas the cromo tube could just be tapped out, no drilling.

 

 

[Hasse]

Hi Hasse,All the parts came from aircraft spruce-

the cable outer grip part no. 05-16250 on the firewall (i did use a swivelling one but can't find the part no for that one)

 

the inner wire gripper part no. 05-16245.

 

Cheers

 

Rick

Great! Many thanks Rick,

I found the parts and have made the order.

 

 

[Hasse]

Hi Hasse,All the parts came from aircraft spruce-

the cable outer grip part no. 05-16250 on the firewall (i did use a swivelling one but can't find the part no for that one)

 

the inner wire gripper part no. 05-16245.

 

Cheers

 

Rick

Hi again Rick!

I've just installed and tested your recommended throttle conversion and it works very well. Thanks for the suggestion! The only minor remaining obstacle is that I still find the original Rotax carburator tension springs too strong for the purpose and make it unnecessary hard to fine-adjust the throttle. Do you know if anyone has tried to install weaker carburator springs?

 

Hasse

 

 

[rick morawski]

Hi Hasse,

 

I usually take the springs off altogether. I don't think it's necessary with the hard rod push/pull system.

 

If you want weaker springs you can get them at ACS here - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/throttlespring05-12477.php?clickkey=5638

 

Cheers

 

Rick

 

 

[Hasse]

Hi Hasse,I usually take the springs off altogether. I don't think it's necessary with the hard rod push/pull system.

If you want weaker springs you can get them at ACS here - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/throttlespring05-12477.php?clickkey=5638

 

Cheers

 

Rick

Great! Will test both without and with weaker springs.

Btw. You and this forum are invaluable sources of information and assistance. Many thanks.

 

Hasse

 

 

[rankamateur]

Would the standard setup benefit form the gentle return springs?

 

 

[rick morawski]

Would the standard setup benefit form the gentle return springs?

Don't know if you could say it is of benefit, just some folk don't like the throttle creeping up all time they haven't got the friction lock done up enough.

With the standard flexible Bowden cable type throttle, the spring must be strong enough to pull the throttle cable through the sheath to get full throttle. You could easily see a situation where a kinked/frayed /not so well maintained cable maybe could not be pulled through by a weaker spring.

 

 

[Hasse]

Hej Rankamateur,

 

Perhaps, but the standard set up with flexible wires obviously needs the force from springs to pull the wires to open the throttle. I would imagine that the extent of this force depends on the friction in the wire cables. Still, the weaker springs that Rick mentioned have about half the force of the originals so that might be sufficient. Worth testing!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

If you put the rods in Hasse you will not need any springs at all

 

 

[rankamateur]

If you put the rods in Hasse you will not need any springs at all

What about a rod failure? You need some spring to open the throttle or it will be tiger taming time.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The rods and ball links are metal...its the same as if a elevator cable breaks..the likelyhood is pretty much NOT. The springs bring the engine to full throttle anyway and bowden cables need a spring to maintain tension but the rod method is totally different and wont require any springs. I will mod mine to the rod method I think. I hate those cables