Pilot dies in light aircraft crash south of Townsville

[bull]

To any formites that live between Proserpine and Townsville who might require a lift up to Ross,s funeral I will be going. So I have 2 seats available if you need a ride ,just let me know ,Scott Evans ,0458912058 and I don't drink so you will have a sober driver after the wake at the Vic Park.

 

 

[eightyknots]

We aren't big on good reports. We don't carry black boxes and there is often a lack of "reliable " witnesses. With all due respect also Police are not trained with aviation matters, nor are Coroners..I think most are desirous of wanting to know, not just out of a ghoulish curiosity but to gain benefit from the knowledge of the circumstances, and how they might relate to their own operations. Nev

Some years ago I read a Coroner's Report about a TL200 crash (or it may have been another report). The Coroner suggested that Rotax engines were exceedingly unreliable and unsafe. At the time, I thought, what real world experience did she have with Rotax engines?

 

 

[facthunter]

There's plenty if such examples of ignorance. It an inquiry involving motorcycles it was stated that they would be safer if they didn't lean over on corners.

 

A judge in a matter concerning the DH Drover, in a great display of genius said.

 

Er.... this Aircraft has three engines does it not?

 

Yes your honour.

 

Which side does it have two engines on? ,,,,,,? Nev

 

 

[Nobody]

I am not entirely sure that this is the right thread to be posting this but since others are talking about incidents and experience I thought it would be worth sharing.

 

A wise person in gliding once described to me the dangerous times in a pilots career as 80 hours, 800 hours and 8000 hours.

 

80 Hours In gliding by the time you get to 80 hours you are probably early cross country with several hundred successful flights. A poor decision will put you in a situation that will test your skill to get your self out of. It may be misjudging the wind sheer on final and you land short or miss handling a cable break. The key factors here is that a poor decision leads to a situation where there is insufficient skill to rectify the situation.

 

800 hours By this stage you have quiet a few years of flying behind you. You are trying to fly further and faster and are perhaps competing in a few competitions. The reasonably high level of skill you have leads to complacency and higher levels of risk taking. This is reinforced by previous success, you were able to thermal away from 300 feet to go on to complete a 750km triangle. On day you get caught out, you fly too close to rapidly developing could and end up engulfed, you get low on a cross country flight and fail to pick a good outlanding spot in time. Complacency and Risk taking have lead to dangerous situations.

 

8000 hours By this stage you have been flying for 45 years. You learnt to fly at 20 and have been gliding ever since. Now approaching 70 things are beginning to slow down in flying and in life. You don't see situations developing as quickly as you used to. Your reaction times are slowing and you cant think about many things at once. An aircraft landing ahead of you and still being on the runway distracts you and you get slow turning base and spin in. It can be tough to give up what you love but flying beyond when you are safe is unsafe.

 

Now the risks are slightly different between RAAus and Gliding but I suspect that many of the factors above apply to flying ultralights too.

 

 

[kasper]

much clipped ...The opportunity to comment about this illegal practice and hopefully avoid future fires presented itself and that is why I commented that we should not be carrying fuel in the cockpit area of any aircraft.

 

You are correct that ultralight's and private operations do have some exemptions but fuel cans which are full are or empty are classed by CASA as dangerous goods. Regardless of exemptions for different categories the same rule does apply and that is it is illegal to carry dangerous goods in the cockpit of any aircraft so please don't cherry pick sections of different regulations to suit yourself.

 

Have the honesty within yourself to agree that a full can of fuel or an empty can of fuel should never be carried in the cockpit of any aircraft.

 

...

Sorry Asmol but you are way off the mark in:

1. assuming that the fuel can is full;

 

2. determining that its illegal to have an empty fuel can in the luggage space; and

 

3. really off the mark stating that regardless of exemption its illegal to carry dangerous goods in the cockpit.

 

You really CAN'T and SHOULDN'T say that something is illegal IF you are in the same sentence accepting that there are exemptions - that what exemption are all about - removing illegality that would otherwise exist ... after all without the EXEMPTIONS that are 95.55, 95.32 and 95.10 all ultralights in Australia are illegal to operate at all!

 

And back to the basics - as noted by ultralight pilots on this thread it is COMMON to carry an empty fuel can when going cross country to move fuel from a petrol station to the airfield/paddock particularly in the older aircraft as they tend to have small fuel tanks and often require pre-mix two stroke which can only effectively be done external to the airframe fitted fuel tank.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

There comes a stage with most where they think they have it all covered. They used to say it was around 100 hours. Just a generalisation of course. Every individual has their own particular experience. I reckon my training was so so. Some aspects of it very good and some ordinary. By the time I did the CPL I had probably had 13 instructors at least. I felt inclined to think I had learned to fly despite some of them. Others were great.The Chipmunk was probably one of the best basic training aircraft around from the pilot point of view, so I was fortunate there.. Regardless of how I might appear here, I generally lacked confidence and assumed just about everybody had more flying aptitude than I did in the early days. As circumstances dictated I encountered a lot of very marginal weather conditions that could have had a bad end, so in retrospect, that wasn't something I would like to see as common, or desired. You might say you can avoid it, but unfortunately the only way to do that is stay on the ground.The central coast of NSW and getting in and out of the Hunter valley can present some challenges weather wise.

Anyhow I do question whether a sound basic skillset adequate for our type of flying is being taught. We do have aircraft harder to fly than the usual type of GA plane and we do fly them across a big continent and land on primitive strips. Quite a few times when flying with a pilot I have said why don't you do XYZ? and demonstrated it and the reply is "I didn't know you could do that", I'm not talking about anything extreme or out of the ordinary, Just pretty basic stuff. This worries me somewhat.

 

If any pupil of mine came to grief because of something he wasn't taught and should have been, how would I feel?. If they do something ill advised I don't have a lot of control over that, but if they don't really know what they are doing or can do, that's another matter. Nev

A grizzled old "Eagle". . . ex-military - ex civil airline pilot of 30 odd years experience said to me a very long time ago. . . "When you've reached 100 hours flying you're fairly sure you know it all. . . .at 200 hours ( If you live that long ) you will be quietly confident in your own prowess at all things aviation,. . . .but at around 300 hours,. . .YOU WILL truly believe that you really DO know it all,. . .and that there's very little else to learn which will assist you on your way to the stars. . . .

 

Several dead friends of mine might well have said something like,. . .. "If it weren't for the laws of physics,. . . .I would still be alive." But, regrettably,. . . they didn't say, or think this before they did something which was beyond either their own training or experience, or beyond the capabilities of the flying appliance that they were operating at the time it went wrong.

 

It would be nice if ALL our friends lived to be grizzled old grumpy aviators, able to pass on their experiences for the education of students and the younger, perhaps Headstrong flyers. . . .I know a couple of these, and I would never presume to contradict their advice.

 

This is how I've survived ( Plus a VERY FAIR HELPING of that nefarious thing we all call GOOD LUCK. . .) to be a pain in the ar$e on forums . . . . .

 

And as the Sergeant used to say on the US TV show Hill Street Blues. . . . . ." Hey,. . . .let's be careful out there. . . ."

 

 

[kasper]

Sorry Asmol but you are way off the mark in:1. assuming that the fuel can is full;

2. determining that its illegal to have an empty fuel can in the luggage space; and

 

3. really off the mark stating that regardless of exemption its illegal to carry dangerous goods in the cockpit.

 

You really CAN'T and SHOULDN'T say that something is illegal IF you are in the same sentence accepting that there are exemptions - that what exemption are all about - removing illegality that would otherwise exist ... after all without the EXEMPTIONS that are 95.55, 95.32 and 95.10 all ultralights in Australia are illegal to operate at all!

 

And back to the basics - as noted by ultralight pilots on this thread it is COMMON to carry an empty fuel can when going cross country to move fuel from a petrol station to the airfield/paddock particularly in the older aircraft as they tend to have small fuel tanks and often require pre-mix two stroke which can only effectively be done external to the airframe fitted fuel tank.

Oh and for fun answer this - what do you say to a rotationally moulded fuel tank that IS the pilot seat? or the fact that you may have a fibreglass fuel tank side 15cm off each of your ears in a high wing single seater without any 'firewall' between you and it? or an LSA Jabiru where the fuel tank sits behind the seats effectively in the cabin with you? or where the fibreglass seat back is the front face of the fuel tank?

 

All exist in many ultralights and strangely people have been operating them legally and safely for the past 40 years

 

 

[facthunter]

Phil to add to that. They used to reckon if you had over 1500 hours flying night and charter single pilot, you wouldn't easily fit into multi crew ops. Bit of truth in all of it. None of it is absolute.

 

Kasper you have brought up the points that I was going to re the fuel tanks.. One of the most dangerous things in an aeroplane is float carburettors . You would go inverted in a Chipmunk and fuel would run all over the windscreen (on the outside) Lately the floats in the 912 BING carbs have had to be replaced as the engines flood. Nev

 

 

[hihosland]

A man has died

 

His family, friends and colleagues are grieving

 

Let us respect

 

A man has died

 

We know not the contribution of his commissions

 

His omissions,

 

nor those of any external agency to that death

 

Let us keep our speculations private

 

A man has died

 

A prolific contributor to these forums

 

Who never hid behind an alias

 

Let us show a similar openness

 

A man has died

 

May he rest in peace

 

Let us allow his nearest and dearest the space to find their own peace

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh and for fun answer this - what do you say to a rotationally moulded fuel tank that IS the pilot seat? or the fact that you may have a fibreglass fuel tank side 15cm off each of your ears in a high wing single seater without any 'firewall' between you and it? or an LSA Jabiru where the fuel tank sits behind the seats effectively in the cabin with you? or where the fibreglass seat back is the front face of the fuel tank?All exist in many ultralights and strangely people have been operating them legally and safely for the past 40 years

Whilst I was doing my best to assist the importer to the UK of the Arrowflight Hawk ",. . .a two seat aeroplane which had been flying successfully in the USA for several years, and still is,. . . we asked the then PFA ( Now LAA ) for permission to increase the fule capacity by installing an external fuel tank on the outside of the aircraft,. . .mounted beneath the engine. The Hawk is a three axis "Pusher" design, but only has an internal plasitc fuel tank with a capacity of 25 letres. Yhe aircraft is powered by a Rotax 503 engine, which means that the total endurance with 25 litres is not very good,. . .the PFA refused the addition, even though it would not take the aricraft over the 450 Kilo weight limit when filled,. . .as it was,. . .in their view. . . a fire risk, being mounted directly beneatth the engine.

 

I said that if this was the case, why did trikes. ( FLexwings ) ALL have tanks mounted underneath the engine,. . .?. . .this made no difference and that is why that aircraft is rotting away in a hangar at my site, and will probably never fly again, when it used to cruise at 70 MPH, two up. . . .at 5,500 rpm with the Rotax 503. . . . .

 

Insane.

 

Anyhow,. . . .please accept my apologies for going a lot off topic. . . .this usually happens with RF threads, and I admit to some responsibility in this regard. ( Sorry Ian - and Ross. . . . . )

 

Maybe another thread is required as I hate to see aircraft rotting away unloved, as that one was so easy to fly, that you could send up your missis with around 2 hours instruction . . .( ! ) depending upon how much you love her I guess. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest asmol]

Don't shoot the messenger, carrying full or empty fuel cans in the cockpit is not allowed by CASA regulations for Dangerous Goods. Just because there are exemptions in some sections of the civil aviation regulations they still get trumped by the carriage of dangerous goods which clearly applies to all aircraft without exemptions. Just because everybody does it is not an excuse to continue the practice. Just because everyone speeds not mean you can speed as well. I have written to CASA and will provide you their reply on the carriage of both empty and full fuel containers in the cockpits of aircraft. I know what their reply will be, whether you choose to agree or not is something you will have to argue with CASA when one day they ramp check you.

 

 

[Robbo]

Don't shoot the messenger, carrying full or empty fuel cans in the cockpit is not allowed by CASA regulations for Dangerous Goods.

Just give it a rest, you are just dragging this on and on and you wonder why people are getting ****** with you, you are just losing credibility (if you had any) on this forum everytime you hit the post button.

 

Just give it a rest, wow I never thought I would use the ignore button but now I get to try it.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Phil to add to that. They used to reckon if you had over 1500 hours flying night and charter single pilot, you wouldn't easily fit into multi crew ops. Bit of truth in all of it. None of it is absolute.Kasper you have brought up the points that I was going to re the fuel tanks.. One of the most dangerous things in an aeroplane is float carburettors . You would go inverted in a Chipmunk and fuel would run all over the windscreen (on the outside) Lately the floats in the 912 BING carbs have had to be replaced as the engines flood. Nev

Yes Nev,. . .my very good frieind David,. . .( same surname, but no relation ) who is now a captain for a well known British airline said the same thing to me,. . .after I had infected him with G.A flying may years ago, he used to fly freight from Prestwick to airports like Frankfurt et al,. . .as single crew IFR,. . .he said that it took him a while to "Fit In" with multi crew ops,. . . .but he's a bit used to it now ! ! !

 

Single pilot IFR was made Haram here some years ago by the way,. . .not legal any more. . . .the daft thing was that David was cleaning Kitchens at a college in Bimingham during the day,. . .and "Moonlighting " as a commercial pilot at night ! ! ! Life can be strange sometimes. . . . . .

 

( Just a quick footnote here,. . .just because I gave the bloke a "Leg Up" does not mean that I was responsible for him becoming an airline captain, nor the fact that he will soon possibly be a training captain either. . that was down to his own study and damned hard work. . . .I may have helped a bit on the way is all. . . .in fact,. . .taking any SERIOUS advice from me , could well have got him dedded. . . . I just infected him, and then taught him everyting I had ever learned,. . without being the holder of a UK ( G.A. ) flying instructor licence. . .so make of that what you will. . . .. he just paid for the bloody fuel FCS. . . .)

 

 

[bull]

Don't shoot the messenger, carrying full or empty fuel cans in the cockpit is not allowed by CASA regulations for Dangerous Goods. Just because there are exemptions in some sections of the civil aviation regulations they still get trumped by the carriage of dangerous goods which clearly applies to all aircraft without exemptions. Just because everybody does it is not an excuse to continue the practice. Just because everyone speeds not mean you can speed as well. I have written to CASA and will provide you their reply on the carriage of both empty and full fuel containers in the cockpits of aircraft. I know what their reply will be, whether you choose to agree or not is something you will have to argue with CASA when one day they ramp check you.

Hey Asmol how do you explain a single seat aircraft like my avatar, which is a LEGAL aircraft under AUSTALIAN REGULATIONS ,that has I 20 lt fuel tank sitting in the front of the pilots feet,,,,,,,,

 

 

[Teckair]

I think we all should just wait for the official report before we start discussing what happened. Just remember someone has lost there life, no matter what people thought of Ross he was a major contributor to this site and also a fellow aviator.

Yeah the official report that will be a fat help, news flash we don't get one!!

 

 

[bull]

Just give it a rest, you are just dragging this on and on and you wonder why people are getting ****** with you, you are just losing credibility (if you had any) on this forum everytime you hit the post button.Just give it a rest, wow I never thought I would use the ignore button but now I get to try it.

Where is that ïgnore'Button as i think a lot of us will use it...............

 

 

[Robbo]

Where is that ïgnore'Button as i think a lot of us will use it...............

Go into your account and there will be a link to "People You Ignore" and add the username, not really simple as a button but does ignore them.

 

 

[Robbo]

Yeah the official report that will be a fat help, news flash we don't get one!!

Sorry thought you would, I am wrong and I admit that I was wrong unlike some members.

 

 

[bull]

Whilst I was doing my best to assist the importer to the UK of the Arrowflight Hawk ",. . .a two seat aeroplane which had been flying successfully in the USA for several years, and still is,. . . we asked the then PFA ( Now LAA ) for permission to increase the fule capacity by installing an external fuel tank on the outside of the aircraft,. . .mounted beneath the engine. The Hawk is a three axis "Pusher" design, but only has an internal plasitc fuel tank with a capacity of 25 letres. Yhe aircraft is powered by a Rotax 503 engine, which means that the total endurance with 25 litres is not very good,. . .the PFA refused the addition, even though it would not take the aricraft over the 450 Kilo weight limit when filled,. . .as it was,. . .in their view. . . a fire risk, being mounted directly beneatth the engine.I said that if this was the case, why did trikes. ( FLexwings ) ALL have tanks mounted underneath the engine,. . .?. . .this made no difference and that is why that aircraft is rotting away in a hangar at my site, and will probably never fly again, when it used to cruise at 70 MPH, two up. . . .at 5,500 rpm with the Rotax 503. . . . .

Insane.

 

Anyhow,. . . .please accept my apologies for going a lot off topic. . . .this usually happens with RF threads, and I admit to some responsibility in this regard. ( Sorry Ian - and Ross. . . . . )

 

Maybe another thread is required as I hate to see aircraft rotting away unloved, as that one was so easy to fly, that you could send up your missis with around 2 hours instruction . . .( ! ) depending upon how much you love her I guess. . . . .

 

Phil

Wish you lived in Aus mate I,d be over with a trailer to pick it up in a flash,I too do not like to see an aircraft "'rotting away'' and would have gladly got her flying again ,it is such a shame . oh well cheers mate and go outside and get a suntan , the weather is great ,..oops sorry forgot you live in England lol.......

 

 

[bull]

Go into your account and there will be a link to "People You Ignore" and add the username, not really simple as a button but does ignore them.

Thanks

 

 

[rankamateur]

Where is that ïgnore'Button as i think a lot of us will use it...............

Click on his avatar and it is right there beside the follow button, but don't press the wrong one with your fat fingers!

 

 

[facthunter]

Why do you have to press a button to ignore someone? They might want to offer you money for damage done to your feelings, and you will never know. Pigs might fly too. Well they (sort of) did in PNG.. Nev

 

 

[Robbo]

Click on his avatar and it is right there beside the follow button, but don't press the wrong one with your fat fingers!

Thought I seen it somewhere else!

 

 

[Robbo]

Pigs might fly too. Well they (sort of) did in PNG.. Nev

Actually they do, the police airwing

 

Oh no, the girlfriend is gonna kill me if she reads that.

 

 

[facthunter]

Have you a police girlfriend? They are lovely when I get stopped for a breathaliser. It must be the uniform I fall for or just being near AUTHORITY. I was referring to the Piaggio in Niugini. Nev