Why does aviation still use imperial system?

[coljones]

No, base 12 is difficult when counting on the fingers, base 8 is quite easy even with 10 fingers.

http://io9.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base-12-counting-system

 

If the meter was a fraction of the nautical mile would have been a good idea.

[dutchroll]

Binary? You only ever have two numerals to deal with and heck, the fastest calculations in the world are done with it, so it must be good!

 

Yeah ok........just getting silly now.

 

 

[Oscar]

The trouble with counting in binary, is all those zero fingers. They're a bugger to see, and if you pick up your drink with them, you just waste it.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The trouble with counting in binary, is all those zero fingers. They're a bugger to see, and if you pick up your drink with them, you just waste it.

Counting on your fingers in base 10 doesn't get you very far. Binary allows you to count to 512.

https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/binary-count-fingers.html

 

 

[Oscar]

I've been awarding other motorists a '4' in binary for years, and a lot don't appreciate it.... though, since I put a circular saw through the end of my middle finger on the right hand when I was a nipper, they may be miffed that they're only really getting a 3.75..

 

 

[Himat]

http://io9.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base-12-counting-system

Thanks for the link!

 

Actually, I do think that when the discussion stray into base number a lot of people fall off.

 

Now, how many aviators know that after turning 359 degrees and turn one more you have turned 1 000 degres?

 

 

[kasper]

When I was 11 and we started learning "other" counting systems in school binary made sense whereas hexadecimal was just weird - and of course we all learned 4 in binary ... then 58,008 on calcualtors ;-)

 

Equally radians was just silly to this 11yr olds mind - who ever though of dividing a whole concept into a non-recurring number? especially I rationalized that if you 'modified' the definition and ran the radius across rather than around the circumference you ended up with a nice neat 6 divisions in a circle rather than 2pi ... my mathematical mind later learned that radians are useful but heck its confusing to start with

 

 

[coljones]

When I was 11 and we started learning "other" counting systems in school binary made sense whereas hexadecimal was just weird - and of course we all learned 4 in binary ... then 58,008 on calcualtors ;-)Equally radians was just silly to this 11yr olds mind - who ever though of dividing a whole concept into a non-recurring number? especially I rationalized that if you 'modified' the definition and ran the radius across rather than around the circumference you ended up with a nice neat 6 divisions in a circle rather than 2pi ... my mathematical mind later learned that radians are useful but heck its confusing to start with

Well does Kasper, you have established for yourself the basis of the 1 in 60 rule.

 

 

[kasper]

Well does Kasper, you have established for yourself the basis of the 1 in 60 rule.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Does everyone think all these "Imperial sizes/ names are English, Fat chance, when they were slaves (serf) to the Vikings / Romans, and all, with no education. "rood rods bushels & all were in use,

 

And the poor Brits had to lean the Dominate language of the time along with the "ettecatt" ( not in dictionary, but how low to bow to the boss ).

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Oscar]

'Ettacat', in Chinese, is 'Kowtow', and it is a measure of the angle of declination of the spine equivalent to the differential between the circumference of a Saxon Standard Orange ( NOT an African Orange, which is migratory) and 248, 677'ths of the number of Kalamata olive pits stacked on edge required to circumnavigate the earth on the 43rd latitude. All of which is straightforward, except nobody knows why the 43rd latitude was selected, though it is generally believed that it was 43 degrees South, selected because some bloody ship's captain was sick and tired of running into bits of the world at night when he'd been relaxing with a restorative rum or seven.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm buggered to know what I would have done, IF you hadn't told me that. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Nev, the default position is with the forehead against the ground, and on your knees. See also, the ATO website and CASA.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cruel and inhuman punishment. Any court would regard it as excessive. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Oscar: I believe "BA" starts at I/4" whitworth, as No,. 4 then gets thinner as the number increases.

 

I was told there's NO alternative to BA at all, Blooodi _Awful.

 

As science makes parts smaller, BA increases it's last number up to the required size.

 

If it was up to 100, years ago, then it must have increased it's number to maybe 150 BA now.

 

My set of BA only goes to 1/16", but I cant read the number on the die. And probably I've only got nominal sizes. I don't need 128th of an inch size different s.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

BA is instruments stuff. Smaller is bigger, How logical is that? Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

FT.

 

How would you mark taps & dies, that at a later date than now, will be not only smaller but far more precise, than we can make at the moment.

 

Start at a funny number say 1,000 & decrease the number whilst increasing the size to N.,1 equalling 1/4 inch.

 

One over four. Start at the first nominal size 1/1, equals one inch, Or 1/4. We'll make it No,. 4 ( as its one forth).

 

Just like the Metrics, starts as a whole unit then goes. Atto Femto Nano Pico Micro Milli Centi Deci Whole Deka Hekto Kilo Mega Gigga Tera Peta Exa .

 

BBBlllooo di French

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Swap nano (billionth) and pico ( trillionth)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-

 

 

[spacesailor]

OOOps!

 

Another three strokes of the cane,

 

They'll bash it into me in the end, you watch.

 

Still only another generation or two & the old school will be gone & forgotten.

 

we've had Egyptian Roman Latin English, now it's "Hitler's dream" (European Union) but not under Germany .

 

France has tried for many centuries to dominate Europe, So we'll see if the French Europe is any better than the predecessors.

 

Or history will (future) tell it as another failure.

 

without measuring sticks we (humans) WILL go backwards & use Logical tools to measure everything, and the language wont matter in the future as was in the past.

 

A Egyptian rood, Latin perch, or English chain, (The weight that can be lifted by men) Or even a Brass Monkey, That keeps dropping it's balls (canon that is,) a name's a name ,

 

The name tells what its used for, Hands for horses.

 

Bar the French, BAH couldn't understand a feminine table from a robust table so why different French words for a table.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Oscar]

Seriously: the smallest BA taps and dies are already at/beyond the limits of human physical control to produce threads accurately aligned to the material - for hand production. I wouldn't try to use some of the finest BA taps I have in anything harder than non-vintage cheese rind. Yes, I am entirely familiar with using a precision lathe/drill press to align the use of small taps and dies, but we HAVE to be talking fine CNC machining to go a lot further than we can do with the 'traditional' hand-tools.

 

Apart from super-expensive watches in the mega-dollar range, where the intricacies of the mechanical movement are a huge part of what one buys, electronics is superceding anything mechanical. Solid-state gyros, for example, capable of driving through amplification of the signal, completely swamp anything mechanical for packaging and accuracy. And even if they didn't: anything mechanical capable of such accuracy would need electronic amplification of its signal to be of any damn practical use.

 

We won't NEED nano-technology-level mechanical devices. Indeed they make no sense: any mechanical device is subject to influences including some at least of: temperature variation, magnetic influences, friction, torque, gravity, precession, material quality, ambient pressure, manufacturing tolerance, electric potential, inertia, surface tension, dust, mould/patina, mites and (probably) gremlins.

 

Not to mention: Murphy.

 

I may well be incorrect, but I suspect the Atomic Clock that is the basis of so much of standards for the real world, has no BA screws in it, other than perhaps for the case.

 

Electronics does not correspond to any particular National Standard. It may be counted by - and report in - a correspondence of any standard, by the use of algorithms, but that is a confection of the measurement of happenings at the atomic level modified to produce a result that corresponds to a specific standard. By use of an algorithm, one can 'report' the rate of the Atomic clock 'tick' in Donkey-farts per lunar month, for a given input of refried beans, I suspect.

 

Standards, such as AN, produce a useful commercial result: An AN bolt will reliably provide the mechanical strength for a specific load. Something designed to use AN hardware, will reliably continue to function if the designated AN hardware ( in fit and proper condition) is used.

 

WAY too many standards, are conceits with no reasonable validation.

 

Here's a thought: it is - as far as I have ever seen - universal that car seat-belt fitting bolts, are (from memory) 18mm UNF. You can take the seat-belt bolt from a Hiyundai and it will fit a Holden; from a Porsche and it will fit a Pontiac. For all the Engineer's determination to use just exactly what they think is best fit, economics ruled for the extremely essential task of saving human life for a given equation of crash energy.

 

AN, for the moment ( or MS, which is mainly an update of AN recognising that the US Air Force is no longer the Army Air Force), is de facto the most useful standard, as it has the most useful combination of definitions for size, thread form, (UNF), fine tolerance shank length, material specification, finish and specific securing methods.

 

 

[coljones]

OOOps!Another three strokes of the cane,

They'll bash it into me in the end, you watch.

 

Still only another generation or two & the old school will be gone & forgotten.

 

we've had Egyptian Roman Latin English, now it's "Hitler's dream" (European Union) but not under Germany .

 

France has tried for many centuries to dominate Europe, So we'll see if the French Europe is any better than the predecessors.

 

Or history will (future) tell it as another failure.

 

without measuring sticks we (humans) WILL go backwards & use Logical tools to measure everything, and the language wont matter in the future as was in the past.

 

A Egyptian rood, Latin perch, or English chain, (The weight that can be lifted by men) Or even a Brass Monkey, That keeps dropping it's balls (canon that is,) a name's a name ,

 

The name tells what its used for, Hands for horses.

 

Bar the French, BAH couldn't understand a feminine table from a robust table so why different French words for a table.

 

spacesailor

I don't see that France is running Europe - Germany is the one with money although the Greeks would like it to be anyone other than Germany with the ability to bail the other EU states out.

 

 

[spacesailor]

There's No German on my Aussie passport, No DIN metrics in my tool box, outside of Dauchland no one pushes it.

 

Can't say the same for a republic with over twenty revolutions, they could change everything tomorrow.

 

Poor Poms, only had one, to get rid of the despised "republic of England", but I still like the "Republic Battle Hymn" sung by "Harry Seacombe".

 

 

[coljones]

There's No German on my Aussie passport, No DIN metrics in my tool box, outside of Dauchland no one pushes it.Can't say the same for a republic with over twenty revolutions, they could change everything tomorrow.

Poor Poms, only had one, to get rid of the despised "republic of England", but I still like the "Republic Battle Hymn" sung by "Harry Seacombe".

there were a few revolutions in uk but the main ones were to get rid of the excrable Stewarts culminating in the Glorious Revolution of 1688. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I suppose it depends on your history teacher of time.

 

The Marxists Christopher Hill (1912–2003) – used the term "English Revolution".

 

The "Encyclopædia Britannica" called the series of conflicts the "Great Rebellion",

 

The "First Barons" War On 15 June 1215 King John of England Signed the "Magna Carta at Runnymede, near Windsor,

 

And I use the "Magna Carta" to say things, that in other country's would have me locked

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Maritime_Ev]

It's a pity that people get so nationalistic when it comes to these things, especially in the states you still hear the "it's French so it must be bad" argument a lot. The metric system (more accurately International System of Units) has a certain elegance in that it covers all measurements with combinations of just 7 base units, six of which are defined as natural constants, and with the prefixes it can be used on widely different scales (from the sizes of internal components in chips to distances between planets).

 

However for daily use that all doesn't matter too much as long as units are used consistently. And that's the problem in Oz aviation; altitude in feet, navigation in Nautical miles and visibility in meters, fuel in liters, aeroplane weight in lbs and passengers in kg no wonder people stuff up.

 

Even more important in engineering, I once worked as an engineer on an old trailing suction hopper dredger that combined 19th century store keeping with British Lister-Blackstone main engines, American Caterpillar generators and Dutch Stork-Werkspoor dredge pump engines. Either system would have worked but mixing them was a disaster. Reckon that ship was the final straw to leave the dark side and let my engineer's licence lapse to become a full time deck officer.