Is a GA BFR Good Enough or Do I Need to do Another BFR for My RAA cert?

[SSCBD]

I saw this on anther post but no real answer.

 

I have completed my BFR for GA today (30th November 2015) at Archerfield. Do I need to do another BFR for RAA again or not? My RAA is also due.

 

In other words, have any (GA guys) had any trouble with this in 2015 or is it sorted and just send the paper work in or do both.

 

Thanks all in advance!

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I did mine at the start of the year in a GA aircraft and emailed a copy to the office, no issues.

 

 

[Graham Pukallus]

To my knowledge and from past experience the GA BFR is all that is required.

 

I still wanted to do my RAA BFR, which I did with Mahl Oaks ( Fly Now) at Redcliffe to learn more from doing a flight test with a highly experienced RAA CFI and excellent pilot.

 

The standards were both high and but achievable.

 

 

[KRviator]

From the Ops Maual, section 2.07

 

...an aeroplane flight review (AFR) conducted in a single engine aeroplane with a MTOW less than 1500KG, is accepted as meeting the requirements of paragraph 5.f. A copy of the AFR statement from the pilot’s logbook is to be forwarded to RA-Aus Headquarters. The statement should include the pilot’s name, type of flight conducted, name and signature of the examiner and the date of the AFR.

 

Para 5f deals with CAsA-issued endorsements, like a CSU, retractable, seaplane etc, which also meet the requirements for a BFR.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

RAAus hasn't quite caught up with the fact that a GA BFR is now signed off on your licence and there is no statement in your logbook. They will probably need a copy of the licence BFR signature and a copy of the logbook flight entry.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Just my licence page (with AFR) was enough, no log book entry required.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Thank you all, I have the Part 61 licence form signed by the CFI as well for the BFR to send CASA. I will also send this into the RAA and see what hits the fan.

 

Should be amusing.

 

 

[REastwood]

From the Ops Maual, section 2.07...an aeroplane flight review (AFR) conducted in a single engine aeroplane with a MTOW less than 1500KG, is accepted as meeting the requirements of paragraph 5.f. A copy of the AFR statement from the pilot’s logbook is to be forwarded to RA-Aus Headquarters. The statement should include the pilot’s name, type of flight conducted, name and signature of the examiner and the date of the AFR.

 

Para 5f deals with CAsA-issued endorsements, like a CSU, retractable, seaplane etc, which also meet the requirements for a BFR.

This is not true! (unless the Ops Manager has decided to follow the rules) There are a lot of things in GA that count as a Flight Review according to the CASR's, CAO's and CAR's but the Ops Manager picks and chooses which ones they think are acceptable for a BFR. The sole reason I gave up my membership in RA-Aus was the fact that the Ops Manager enforced their opinion and not the rules. The rules are clear but as soon as they say "thats my interpretation of the rules and my interpretation is all that counts", well I told them where to stick it!.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Just my licence page (with AFR) was enough, no log book entry required.

Same..just sent in copy of licence entry signed by GA instructor. I see BFR is now noted on my RAAus Certificate details. Cheers

 

 

[Roscoe]

Same..just sent in copy of licence entry signed by GA instructor. I see BFR is now noted on my RAAus Certificate details. Cheers

That's correct and also what I was told both verbally and in writing by RAA Ops

 

 

[KRviator]

This is not true! (unless the Ops Manager has decided to follow the rules) There are a lot of things in GA that count as a Flight Review according to the CASR's, CAO's and CAR's but the Ops Manager picks and chooses which ones they think are acceptable for a BFR.

Then do what I did when the Tech Manager arbitrarily refused to register my RV-9A with RAAus...Take it further, quoting chapter and verse.

 

The sole reason I gave up my membership in RA-Aus was the fact that the Ops Manager enforced their opinion and not the rules. The rules are clear but as soon as they say "thats my interpretation of the rules and my interpretation is all that counts"

This seems to be a recurring theme with RAAus, with people in positions of authority not knowing, or selectively choosing to ignore, various rules or the legislation we fly under. That being said, just because HQ doesn't follow the rules does not make what I wrote false.The Ops Manual is quite clear in what constitutes "equivalency" so far as an AFR goes, with the following being acceptable stand-ins for a schedules BFR:

 

• A flight check for an RAAus Endorsement (Other than Radio/H.F.) or a Rating. (Section 2.07 (5d))
   
   
  
• A flight test for the issue of a CAsA RPL or higher, or the initial issue of a CAsA Licence, rating or CSU/Tailwheel/Retractable/Seaplane/CTA endorsement (Section 2.07 (5e))
   
   
  
• An AFR conducted in a single engine aeroplane with MTOW <1,500Kg. (Section 2.07 (5g)
   
   
  

 

 

IF someone from HQ wants to refuse acknowledgement of one of the above, have them put it in writing, and go the CEO or Board. I did and had a win, though it should never have come to that in the first place...

 

 

[rhysmcc]

So you are combining a rule which says a Design endorsement counts meeting the AFR requirement, and a rule that says a GA AFR counts for a RA-AUS AFR.

 

Is the design endorsement considered an AFR or does it just meet the requirements to having one?

 

 

[kaz3g]

RAAus hasn't quite caught up with the fact that a GA BFR is now signed off on your licence and there is no statement in your logbook. They will probably need a copy of the licence BFR signature and a copy of the logbook flight entry.

I did my GA AFR more than 4 months ago and still haven't had my new licence back from them. My instructor didn't endorse my logbook because "it is now recorded on the new licence".

 

I phoned CASA a month ago because I didn't like not having anything official to say all was ok and they told me my new licence would arrive "soon".

 

I'm glad I'm not hanging from my fingertips waiting for it.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I did my GA AFR more than 4 months ago and still haven't had my new licence back from them. My instructor didn't endorse my logbook because "it is now recorded on the new licence".I phoned CASA a month ago because I didn't like not having anything official to say all was ok and they told me my new licence would arrive "soon".

 

I'm glad I'm not hanging from my fingertips waiting for it.

 

Kaz

The instructor was supposed to annotate your old licence. That is your evidence of the flight review until your new licence arrives. This procedure was laid out by CASA when part 61 came into affect.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I don't remember getting a new insert after my AFR, just the hand written entry from my instructor.

 

 

[kaz3g]

CASA said nothing about it when I phoned but they knew my application for the new licence format had been received at CLERC.

 

Kaz

 

 

[ave8rr]

I did my GA AFR more than 4 months ago and still haven't had my new licence back from them. My instructor didn't endorse my logbook because "it is now recorded on the new licence".I phoned CASA a month ago because I didn't like not having anything official to say all was ok and they told me my new licence would arrive "soon".

 

I'm glad I'm not hanging from my fingertips waiting for it.

 

Kaz

Kaz, I sent my paperwork in first week of Oct. this was the form to get new part 61 licence and AFR report from instructor. I have been receiving regular emails saying processing times for new Part 61 licences are about 4 months behind. Currently processing applications up to end of July. Prob be Feb/Mar before my new licence arrives. Meantime Instructor just wrote on old Licence that AFR completed and the next review date (31 Oct 17) Note IF you do AFR at beginning of month you will get 25 months validity under new system.

Cheers Mike

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I already had the part 61 licence so was just written on one of its pages

 

 

[Keith Page]

This is not true! (unless the Ops Manager has decided to follow the rules) There are a lot of things in GA that count as a Flight Review according to the CASR's, CAO's and CAR's but the Ops Manager picks and chooses which ones they think are acceptable for a BFR. The sole reason I gave up my membership in RA-Aus was the fact that the Ops Manager enforced their opinion and not the rules. The rules are clear but as soon as they say "thats my interpretation of the rules and my interpretation is all that counts", well I told them where to stick it!.

Yes "Interpreptation", could be raferty's????

Regards,

 

KP.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

CASA said nothing about it when I phoned but they knew my application for the new licence format had been received at CLERC.Kaz

Kaz, this what your instructor should have gone by to record your fight review.

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/files/net351/f/_assets/main/lib100191/part61-written%20guide.pdf

 

 

[Jaba-who]

And just to be sure that there's no confusion.

 

A GA BFR equivalent ( AFR, endorsements etc etc) counts for an RAAus certificate BFR. But RAAus BFR can't be used to avoid a GA AFR.

 

If you have both GA and RAAus then the the RAAus BFR doesn't count for the GA AFR. Have to do two A/B FRs. Stupidity - if you fly two same or similar type of aircraft that are registered one in each category.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Well No, you don't have to do 2. Just do your GA AFR and send it to RA-Aus

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Guess it depends on timings. I was thinking of a friend who has both - and has to do two A/B FRs. But when I think about it maybe has to do two separate ones because the RAA one must be due before the GA one so doesn't count when he does the GA or something.

 

But he has been told he has to do both. Currently travels to a distant town to be able to do it with an instructor who will do both at same time.

 

Basically what I was trying to say is that while a GA one counts for RAA.

 

An RAA one doesn't count for a GA one.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Yeah your right that it doesn't go both ways but why doesn't your mate after doing his GA AFR just send it in to RAA even if that one isn't due? Maybe an idea to save him some dollars

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Yeah your right that it doesn't go both ways but why doesn't your mate after doing his GA AFR just send it in to RAA even if that one isn't due? Maybe an idea to save him some dollars

Yeah, that's by far the most sensible approach. I'll pass it by him.

 

Now I think about it we are talking about a subtle , somewhat pedantic difference.

 

He says he has tried to get a local instructor to do "both at the same" time. ie: Go for a checkride with someone who can assess for either and then when you land and fill in the books - call that single flight a GA AFR and also an RAAus BFR.

 

I guesss what this thread is really about is doing one checkride - calling it EITHER a GA checkride OR an RAAus checkride and then having that written in the logbook or on the licence. Then having it recognized later by the other entity.

 

Here my mate's issue is we have two different instructors who treat the single checkride differently. One says you can't call one checkride both types and says you have to do them seperately, and one who says you can do both at the same time.