facthunter Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 I thought they were just ploughing furrows and regardless of the direction of landing was a pretty rough paddock in any case and likely to produce the result it did. I wondered if it was nose heavy as it didn't appear to flare. The self loading cargo may have been bit forward or the plane slow. Inclined to be tail heavy would be the go if it could be arranged. Rust at any point on a valve spring is a precursor of failure of the spring. A plane not getting regular use with reasonable length of engine runs to get it fully warm each time is a good candidate. Nev 1 1
winsor68 Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 I thought they were just ploughing furrows and regardless of the direction of landing was a pretty rough paddock in any case and likely to produce the result it did. I wondered if it was nose heavy as it didn't appear to flare. The self loading cargo may have been bit forward or the plane slow. Inclined to be tail heavy would be the go if it could be arranged.Rust at any point on a valve spring is a precursor of failure of the spring. A plane not getting regular use with reasonable length of engine runs to get it fully warm each time is a good candidate. Nev "...didn't appear to flare..." Correct. It appeared to me that he arrived at the ground before he was ready and in a rush. That they survived this crash was nothing but luck IMO. I am truly surprised and alarmed at some of the "gung-ho" attitudes displayed. Sure...we weren't there...but to my eye it is obvious this was no herculean piloting feat.
Robbo Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 "...didn't appear to flare..." Correct. It appeared to me that he arrived at the ground before he was ready and in a rush. That they survived this crash was nothing but luck IMO. I am truly surprised and alarmed at some of the "gung-ho" attitudes displayed. Sure...we weren't there...but to my eye it is obvious this was no herculean piloting feat. Answer this, have you ever flown a load of jumpers? Not a normal flight, jumper gets an itch and moves is enough to upset the balance. Not having a go at you winsor68 just asking.
Guest ozzie Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Hey Oscar Skydivers do not wear seat belts/lap belts. They use what is called a 'single point restraint' they vary in type, length and connection method depending on aircraft type and seating method. If you REALLY LOOK at the video again you can see it is not over his lap but slipped through his leg strap. They did their job in this case. It stopped them all from getting thrown forward into the panel and the pilot. And that is their job. SPR's are a compromise. No jumper wants to wear them. If you watch (again) you can see how long it takes to remove them. fumble fumble while the guy behind is yelling 'GET OUT'. (Think fire here.) They are not meant to hold a jumper in a seat. They are just meant to restrain them. They have been mandatory for decades here including the placarding, 'in accordance with blah blah SPR must be worn on T/O and landing and below 1000ft". it is a 'beer offence'* if you are caught not wearing a SPR at our DZ. NZ have only just implemented them after the Fox Glacier crash as the industry think that some jumpers slid to the rear after a steep take off. So exactly what patch of ground would you put it on Oscar. He seemed to come out of that descending turn with plenty of speed probably trying to skip over that ditch but just missed he didn't roll out much and flipped over pretty quick so was going at a pace. That is evident from the damage to the rear fuselage and fin bugger all to the fire wall and engine mount. He also did not flare much you can see the elevator deflection just as they touch down. As for the google image it is just a moment in time the land is farmed, it changes month to month including the nice inviting green bits. Beer for the pilot, kick in the butt for the repairman. All channels have picked it up. these days if you want to see it earlier get on FB. It has been bouncing around all week there. * rather than grounding someone for a minor offense they are subjected to a beer fine. Must supply a carton at end of days jumping. We disagree Windsor and i can live with that.
winsor68 Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Answer this, have you ever flown a load of jumpers?Not a normal flight, jumper gets an itch and moves is enough to upset the balance. Not having a go at you winsor68 just asking. Irrelevant to the discussion. And the answer is no.
Robbo Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 How is it irrelevant to the discussion? Previous posters were saying about lack of flare and nose heavy and I mentioned about balance issues when carrying jumpers. Not sure how thats irrelevant. You are basically saying you can see what happened by looking at the video and your saying he arrived at the ground quick and in no time to flare. How do you know he wasn't trying to flare but everyone was pushed around from the sharp turn and therefore out of balance. About 52 seconds in I can see a partial flare. 2
winsor68 Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 How is it irrelevant to the discussion?Previous posters were saying about lack of flare and nose heavy and I mentioned about balance issues when carrying jumpers. Not sure how thats irrelevant. You are basically saying you can see what happened by looking at the video and your saying he arrived at the ground quick and in no time to flare. How do you know he wasn't trying to flare but everyone was pushed around from the sharp turn and therefore out of balance. About 52 seconds in I can see a partial flare. These are all factors the pilot should have taken into consideration... My experience is irrelevant.
dazza 38 Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Some times peeps have to put the shovel down and climb out of the hole. 5
Bruce Tuncks Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 This was done by a very experienced pilot ( airline pilot plus Sonex types ) on the first flight of the Onex. He tried a 270 degree circuit from about 300 ft. In his defence, there was still some engine power when he started the circuit. The pilot climbed out as it caught fire. A few years before this, I watched as an inexperienced pilot from a similar starting point did a 90 degree turn and then a good paddock landing. I wonder if too much faith in your own ability can help the error in judgement shown here. 1
aj_richo Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Bruce, have you spoken to the pilot involved to get the facts of what happened and the sequence of events following? To be fair to him, there is a little bit more to it than what you have outlined, as he explained it to me. 1
winsor68 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Bruce, have you spoken to the pilot involved to get the facts of what happened and the sequence of events following?To be fair to him, there is a little bit more to it than what you have outlined, as he explained it to me. There always is... sadly they aren't always around afterward to explain.
Bruce Tuncks Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I was in the circuit area when it happened but didn't see much, and I hadn't met the pilot before or since. But it was great to see him climbing out. I do know that he told others the Onex didn't behave properly ... maybe there was a rigging problem, not apparent on inspection , but the plane looked well built to me. I bet the pilot, with the benefit of hindsight, would have done things differently. 1
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