A day to be remembered or forgotten?

[Yenn]

I was there when London was bombed, luckily not in the centre of the city, but close enough to have bombs set the house alight, plus other damage and deaths every day. We lived in fear of invasion for some time, then the bombe, then the buzz bombs, then the V2 rockets, so anything that stopped the war was good for us.

 

The Japanese had been fighting for years in China and committing atrocities, as they did after the fall of Singapore in that area.

 

As for them being civilised and honourable in their behaviour, that is something I seriously question. I worked with them in Singapore in 1968 and again in 71 / 72 and found them untrustworthy, egotistical and general ratbags. Having had them trying to force their way to the front of airline queues by using their luggage as a battering ram doesn't make change my opinion of them, although the couple of japanese women I have known are lovely people I cannot say the same about the men.

 

They are an island nation, like the Poms and are possibly more arrogant than the Poms.

 

 

[facthunter]

The raid on Pearl Harbour was effective and well planned. The Americans at the time made a lot of what they called "treachery". What I never knew for a long time was the preventing of Japan from getting things like oil and rubber by the US. in the 30's although Harley Davidsons were manufactured under licence as the Rikuo in the early 30's and perhaps late 20's.. There was some warning of the attack at Pearl but was not acted on. Some theories have stated that was deliberate to get the greater damage to get many people to be more keen on going at the Nippon forces.. Isoroko Yamamoto made a statement about arousing a sleeping Giant and filling him with a terrible resolve. He knew they couldn't win a protracted war with the US. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

They are an island nation, like the Poms and are possibly more arrogant than the Poms.

Australia is an island nation

 

 

[facthunter]

And we haven't perfected arrogance , yet. Nev

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Had the US navy not been destroyed and forced to be rebuilt, its likely they would have been severely overwhelmed in later naval conflicts in the Pacific.Many ships were outdated and not up to standards of Japanese navy at the time.

Yamamato was quite correct.

Yamamoto had studied in the US and knew the extent and sophistication of the US industry. The US still has an overwhelming military, but the expense of it coupled with round after round of corporate tax cuts has hollowed out the US economy.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Turbs I'm sure you presented the best of Western courtesy, but too many don't. By our standards the Japanese have incredibly high standards of behaviour. One aspect is that they are too well mannered to tell us what they really think of us.

That is partially true, it gets very complicated. I have an American friend who married a Japanese and has lived in Tokyo for about 30 years, speaks fluent Japanese but is STILL learning about the complexities.

For example, we were travelling on a bus in Hiroshima. I had the train system down pat, but noticed on the bus the fare sign kept changing. After a while I realised it was getting lower and lower, then realised I should have taken note of the fare shown when I boarded because everyone paid the correct amount based on honour. When getting off I made an estimate and handed over enough cash to cover it. The driver said something to me but I couldn't understand him, but knew I had covered the cost.

 

The next morning at breakfast at the hotel, which was close to where I got off the bus, an American came over to me and said "I was on the bus with you yesterday; I've lived here for years and speak Japanese well, and after you got off the driver said he was mortified that he hadn't been able to explain that you had overpaid, and asked me, if I saw you to give you the change. It was all of about 30 cents.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

That is partially true, it gets very complicated. I have an American friend who married a Japanese and has lived in Tokyo for about 30 years, speaks fluent Japanese but is STILL learning about the complexities.

LOL! I've been living in Oz for nearly 50 years and I'm still not properly de-wogged.

 

 

[facthunter]

The raid on Pearl Harbour was effective and well planned. The Americans at the time made a lot of what they called "treachery". What I never knew for a long time was the preventing of Japan from getting things like oil and rubber by the US. in the 30's although Harley Davidsons were manufactured under licence as the Rikuo in the early 30's and perhaps late 20's.. There was some warning of the attack at Pearl but was not acted on. Some theories have stated that was deliberate to get the greater damage to get many people to be more keen on going at the Nippon forces.. Isoroko Yamamoto made a statement about arousing a sleeping Giant and filling him with a terrible resolve. Nev Been there for about 3 hours, Another late posted post......

 

 

[Ferris]

This does not excuse the war crimes by the Japanese or Germans, but must be put into perspective. The US, British and Russians were guilty of many war crimes as well. They all had a lot of civilian blood on there hands and with full knowledge- not by some accident.

War crimes are only ever committed by the losing side. Same as a bar room brawl. It's never the winner who calls the coppers.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

War crimes are only ever committed by the losing side.

While that's true without any doubt, I am not aware of any other countries doing stuff such as playing sport with infants such as throwing them up into the air and seeing which soldier can catch them with their bayonet.

 

One of a number of some really low stuff carried on by the Japanese who saw all other forms of life, especially other Asians, as well beneath them.

 

The slaughtering of medical staff, even those treating Japanese soldiers at the time, is particularly low.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That is partially true, it gets very complicated. I have an American friend who married a Japanese and has lived in Tokyo for about 30 years, speaks fluent Japanese but is STILL learning about the complexities..

True for me in China too, although after 10 years one simple rule is don't trust them at their face value, ever.

 

 

[turboplanner]

While that's true without any doubt, I am not aware of any other countries doing stuff such as playing sport with infants such as throwing them up into the air and seeing which soldier can catch them with their bayonet.One of a number of some really low stuff carried on by the Japanese who saw all other forms of life, especially other Asians, as well beneath them.

The slaughtering of medical staff, even those treating Japanese soldiers at the time, is particularly low.

The butchery that went on when Japan invaded China just before WW2 was appalling, and has never been forgotten by the Chinese. The Japanese could yet pay a very high price in retribution.

On the other hand, the propaganda fed to the Australian people by the Government, as governments used to do around that time is not confirmed by any but a few isolated incidents, and in particular, the book "The War Diaries of Weary Dunlop" which is a very comprehensive summary of the building of the Burma Railway does not show the atrocities alleged by the press.

 

While there's no doubt that Weary hated the Japanese and the way that working and living in the conditions was killing our men, he also realised the Japanese were dying too, and treated them with compassion and achieved the best possible outcome of a bad deal where they had all been sent to do a near impossible task under shocking conditions.

 

The book is well worth a read because he pulls no punches, but cuts away the propaganda that was spread at the time.

 

https://www.penguin.com.au/products/9780143003915/war-diaries-weary-dunlop-java-and-burma-thailand-railway-1942-1945

 

 

[facthunter]

Plenty of propaganda around but the South East Asia Co-prosperity concept didn't get taken up by any occupied (by the Japanese) countries to my knowledge. They didn't win the hearts and minds, as the went through . The treatment of Korean and Chinese occupied prior to the WW2 is still a big concern, and it goes beyond mere propaganda. Those who carried out these atrocities are virtually ALL dead by now, but the issues aren't. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Much as I admire the Japanese, the resurgence of nationalism and denial of war crimes committed by their forefathers is a worry. There are movies of Japanese committing atrocities, and video interviews with veterans describing in detail the nasty things they did. Many old Japanese soldiers have expressed profound shame at their own behaviour during the war; why can't their government put that into the school curriculum?

 

There will never be good relations with China and Korea until they honestly face up to their past.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Unfortunately for the Japanese people, there is a tiny group who deny anything wrong happened and wish to return to the ways of the old Japan. They also happen to be the ones in power and totally disregard the wishes of the people.

 

The grouping is a few thousand people and could only be described as a cabal hell bent of making Japan a militarist power. Shinzo Abe is one and prime minister.

 

 

[facthunter]

The facts of the war don't appear in their history books in any way critical of them. They didn't instigate the war even. The China invasion was the reason America moved it's forces to Hawaii. None of this is as simple as anyone promotes it. The British Empire still existed big time. Raw materials supply security was sought by Japan. (They aren't self sufficient in much) The Japs thought the Indians would overthrow the British as they came through. (There were Indians serving in the Luftwaffe). The assembled force of Japanese carriers was by far the biggest in history, for the Pearl Harbour action, and totally successful for the Nippon forces. Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

Here is a ABC report on Japans Cabal-

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-02/lifting-the-lid-on-one-of-the-most-influential,/6996204

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-02/nippon-kaigi-and-the-rise-of-nationalism-in-japan/6994560

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I have this book about the Jap sub force which goes into great detail about how they never made an impact in the pacific war. The japs could have easily controlled the pacific as the allies never had proper control of both sides like they did with the Atlantic. But like with most things Japanese in WW2 they never worked properly. All those years of isolationism paid off.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The butchery that went on when Japan invaded China just before WW2 was appalling, and has never been forgotten by the Chinese. The Japanese could yet pay a very high price in retribution.

What people don't know or understand is this is but a wee part of the story/history.

 

The Japanese "Owned" parts of China including Shanghai before 1900 until the end of the war. The sellout of Chinese produce goods by a number of Countries led by Japan and America (including Australia) under the guise of "Capitalism", especially rice which led to a lot of deaths from starvation, was what led to the rise of Mao's power and Communism.

 

How could such an evil and misguided person get to power if he wasn't the better choice of what was already in place?

 

Lots of history but need to search for it, the Boxer Rebellion one of the better known, shame there's not more info about previous years of Japan in China.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Japanese_relations#Meiji_Restoration_and_the_rise_of_the_Japanese_Empire_1868-1931

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

All countries lie or cover up about things like wars. I was in school in the 1950's and thought Darwin was only bombed once.

 

And I never heard about the last official police-led massacre of aborigines ( 1928!) in the Alice Springs area where I lived. Now we in Australia have a lot less to hide and cover up than the Japanese but we do show the same inclination.

 

Here's something happening now that seems to be not reported : Is ISIS funding itself by sending oil out in trucks through Turkey as the Russians say?

 

Wow if this is true we are mugs to have planes there, and if it's untrue then why the accusations ?

 

 

[Litespeed]

And the Saudi's are apparently funding ISIS as well.

 

The violent Wahabbi sect of Islam was a invention by the Saud family and a gut called Wahabbi in the 1730's as a means of taking control of the area. It really took root after WW1 and they have openly used oil wealth ever since to fund its spread around the world.

 

Don't forget that the twin towers attack was by mainly Saudi's. But they got a free ride and Afghanistan and then Iraq copped it.

 

 

[eightyknots]

What people don't know or understand is this is but a wee part of the story/history.The Japanese "Owned" parts of China including Shanghai before 1900 until the end of the war. The sellout of Chinese produce goods by a number of Countries led by Japan and America (including Australia) under the guise of "Capitalism", especially rice which led to a lot of deaths from starvation, was what led to the rise of Mao's power and Communism.

 

How could such an evil and misguided person get to power if he wasn't the better choice of what was already in place?

 

Lots of history but need to search for it, the Boxer Rebellion one of the better known, shame there's not more info about previous years of Japan in China.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Japanese_relations#Meiji_Restoration_and_the_rise_of_the_Japanese_Empire_1868-1931

Another thing that is there was a bloody eighteen month long war fought between the Japanese and the Russians. Both nations had expansionary ideas and this led to a clash over parts of China (Manchuria) and Korea. This happened in 1904-1905 and made the world sit up and take notice of Japan as a rising military power for the first time.