Which Rec Flying Flagship Plane

[Guest sypkens]

Ian,

 

Have a look at this one.

 

www.rmtaviation.com

 

regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Admin]

That is certainly an interesting aircraft - I wonder what it handles like - their website isn't the best source of info though!

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

No the website is not full on any details. I did find an unlinked page stating the cost at 78K Euro. Certainly not cheap. But I do love the cruise.

 

If you are interested in what other options are available there is an annual magazine (originally from germany) that details all manufacturers of sailplanes, ultralights, certified and LSA aircraft , gyrocopters and helicopters. I get it at my local news agency around August September at $22.00. It also contains info on engine options and even turbines. It really makes you drool. If you are interested I can scan the cover and post it on the forums. It was in there that I saw the above plane.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Admin]

that would be great Jan - thanks!

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

If its the same one I'm thinking of its called the World Directory of Leisure Aviation - http://www.flying-directory.com/

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

That would be the one . Thanks John.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Hello Ian, After reading your 10 wishs, I think the aircraft for you would be the one flown by Porco in the film "Porco Rosso" - it even comes with a compartment to accomadate a female flight engineer. HPD

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Me three would love to see the mag ....

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Mag

 

Hi,

 

This is the current year's mag. I have been able to buy the last 3 years at my local news agency. They do not order them specifically for me. They always seems to turn up around August and there has only ever been 2 at a time. Quite a thick mag with all the manufacturer details of every light aircraft. It is expensive but in my opinion worth every cent. Be prepared to drool and dream:;)6:. I take no responsibility for the budget arguments this will cause:devil:.

 

Regards,

 

jan

 

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

Ian,

 

Have you had a look at the Czech Aircraft Works Parrot. Here is a link to their website.

 

http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/PARROT-MAIN.html

 

It's a high-wing, all metal, it's quite roomy at 36 inches cabin width (not quite as comfy as the CT but still better than most) and with the Jabiru 120 HP engine it has a fair turn of speed.

 

Peter.

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks Peter - I am now thoroughly convinced that the USA have completely stuffed up the entire recreational flying market all around the world. A lot of really great aircraft are now targeting the US market therefore they are only designing and manufacturing to a maximum 120kt limit.

 

The CT achieves this by only giving a -6 deg cruise flap instead of -12 deg as is here and by detuning the prop. Offcourse the wise CT owners in the US have discovered this and have tweaked their CT flap settings and prop to that of the ones that are made for Australia.

 

This 120kt limitation is not just limiting the speed of LSA aircraft in the US but also limiting the future design of aircraft that our recreational flying arena thrives on.

 

 

[Thruster87]

[it's a high-wing, all metal, it's quite roomy at 36 inches cabin width] That's a bloody tight fit. I think you may have meant 46" Cheers T87

 

 

[Guest disperse]

This 120kt limitation is not just limiting the speed of LSA aircraft in the US but also limiting the future design of aircraft that our recreational flying arena thrives on.

;););)

 

This is so very true ! and I believe that without this speed limitation . we could be looking at recreational planes with CRUISE SPEEDS in excess of 170kts.

 

(this is just an opinion).

 

it is true that the speed of a lot of planes could be increased with props etc. But because of the speed limitation of the US market. they have not allowed for it in the construction / Vne

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

[it's a high-wing, all metal, it's quite roomy at 36 inches cabin width] That's a bloody tight fit. I think you may have meant 46" Cheers T87

whoops, As you can see by the time that I posted my last entry on this thread I was a tad tired. I'm on nightshift at the moment and posted it at work.

 

Peter.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I challenge you to come up with an aircraft that will do 170+ knots on a Jab 120hp or Rotax 914 !

 

 

[Admin]

Brent - I know one that is using a 912ULS but I will not say more at the moment but the way things are going I will possibly be able to say a lot more very soon

 

 

Proven figures:

 

Wing Span 8,10 m

 

Length 7,10

 

Max weight 450 kg (limited to the Euro weight limit but should go LSA 600kg)

 

Empty weight 285 kg

 

Wing area 9,96 mq

 

Stall speed 62 km/h

 

Max speed 390 km/h

 

Cruise speed (75% 80 hp - 100 hp) 260 - 306 km/h

 

Take off & landing distance150 m

 

 

[Guest ROM]

Cruise on 75% power for the 2 seat side by side, french built, R 912S powered Dyn'Aero MCR Sportster is given as 295 kph at FL 0 [ 159 kts. ] and 318 kph at FL 80 [ 171 kts ]

 

MTOW 490kgs. Range on standard tanks, 1375 kms.

 

A good website for all things in Ultralight aviation is; http://www.ultralightmarket.com/

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Admin]

here is a picture of the tail of the one I was referring to ;) ;) ;)

 

 

 

[Guest disperse]

I challenge you to come up with an aircraft that will do 170+ knots on a Jab 120hp or Rotax 914 !

I will say that these speeds are possible, but your definitely getting to the high end of the price range.

 

However, I don't think that another 50hp out of a similar weighted engine is unreasonable.

 

just look at motorcycle engines at the moment... and you can cane the guts out of them for years before they break....(regular servicing required) ....SOME.

 

Rotex can get 100hp out of 1.2litre . reliably.

 

 

[Galpin]

Ian, can I "spoil" the party? I know what that aircraft is, as I read-up on it some time ago? I even have a photo of it on my desktop.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Close but no Cigar. 306kmh is still only 165 knots and that would be VNE and TAS up high. I think technology has a long way to get us some cruise figures up over the 160's on a single engine. Aside from perhaps an Extra or Edge, Bonanza, Cirrus and a few with high power to weight ratios there isn't much out there that will do it and until we have a few more horses from our light-weight Rotaxes it's unlikely to happen soon. I'd say your RV range would have to be the best speed per horsepower and payload at the moment.

 

I remember discussion some time ago about what would be the fastest ultralight. I'd be intesested to see if the result has changed. Perhaps a new thread could be started on that topic.

 

 

[Admin]

Brent, Vne is 210 knots out of a Rotax on that one and even if that doesn't convince you then there is the MCR VLA which is pretty close at 173 knots at Vne. These are only using the 912ULS and not the 914 which has an extra 20 horses.

 

I personally don't think that technology has a long way to go, it is just appearing now.

 

There are companies out there developing some great things with the Rotax - should see the interesting exhaust system that has been developed for the Rotax to get that little bit extra out of it.

 

Galpin - shoosh, I know it is hard to keep quiet but isn't it an incredible aircraft - may see some here in Aussie in the not to distant future when some paper work gets done and certification is achieved - I certainly hope so.

 

 

[sain]

Hmm, on the " I challenge you to come up with an aircraft that will do 170+ knots on a Jab 120hp or Rotax 914 !" front, how about the AR-5? could easily be classified as an ultralight in aus, and does a smoking 185knots on a 65hp engine (yes, i know, not a jab 120hp or a rotax 914).

 

Mind you its is a low wing single seater so it doesnt fit Ian's criteria at all, but hey, hell of an aircraft. Just shows what you can do when you pay attention to reducing your drag.

 

http://www.ar-5.com/

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't intend to 'bag' an aircraft that any of you were looking at and am very much aware of the MCR. My point was that we don't have cruise speeds of 170+ knots yet. You can't really include VNE as it won't cruise at that because a Rotax simply doesn't have the power. There are a number of machines out there with very high VNE's, eg a local glass aircraft claiming over 200+, but in the real world I want to see high cruise figures for the big dollars we are paying out and without 300hp up the front we don't seem to be getting them.

 

The Cirrus is a good example of how you throw horsepower at something and you can make it go fast. The SR20 is 200 hp and has a TAS of around 145. The SR22 is 300 hp and tas is around 170. The SR22 GTS turbo with 350hp is around 195-tas. All of those on the same airframe, just more horses.

 

Not sure what my point is other than I think it is probably not possible to get those speeds in a 2 seater with Rotax power for quite some time with the current technology.

 

210 would be 'interesting' to say the least Ian. I think the nose would well and truly be pointing towards the ground to build up those kinds of figures.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

I consider a fair cruise to be 75% power at around 7000ft Tas

 

now there are a "FEW" out there with this claim, but the proof is in the pudding

 

ie: if you buy a comadore with a 290kw badge on it ......you don't get a true 290kw