Rapidly Changing Times for the worse in this great Country

[fly_tornado]

people forget what australians are capable of doing to children, this happened in sydney

 

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/boys-had-penises-cut-off-royal-commission-into-institutional-responses-to-child-sexual-abuse-hears/news-story/2a0bc2838d07e59aa81d1225d6e8d16f

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Hi IBob, the reason for drawing lines is to stop this country becoming like the ones they fled from. I've had a bit to do with them and they are not nice countries like NZ , even though they sure have some good people there.

 

If you have a problem with that, please explain why.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Which I think is part of the real problem here: difficulty with, and fear of, change.

Yeah, nah, I don't want to change, why is it you are forcing it upon me.

 

Why is it people new to our country aren't the ones required to change.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

BTW IBob, you are from Wairarapa?

 

What is that, some small isolated place in NZ away from everywhere, looks like it in the pictures.

 

Exactly what day to day experience have you had surrounded by tens of thousands of Muslims in a city?

 

I find that people who are NIMBYs (not necessarily by choice) to be quite liberal on the subject and many who actually have to accept it in their face daily are quite put out by it.

 

 

[Litespeed]

I'm pretty much with you. So how do we regard Phillips arrival here and the use the British made of this place, (which was a penal colony for Felons)? without consulting the people who were here, and continue to desecrate the whole continent (in their view) Their attachment to the land is essential to their existence spiritually. That's pretty much beyond doubt. AS bad as a religion inspired forced change of culture .Nev

And we are still doing it.

 

Native title has been extinguished over the Adani mine site- the first time it has happened to aid a private company. Barstards changed the law to screw the rights of the real Aussies.

 

And the pace of native title is a scam- 80 years until they expect all current cases will be finalised. Maybe they just want them to all die out first.

 

 

[Litespeed]

HALAL CERTIFICATION IS A TOTAL SHAM AND CON.After an Australian Senate Enquiry a couple of months ago found that:

 

1. Each area was managed by a different Islamic person.

 

2. That NO CONSISTANT RULES OR STANDARDS WERE INPLACE in Australia were it was up to this "Individual Islamic Person". (WHAT A JOKE)

 

3. The MONEY received for the so-called approval could not be traced as to its END USE.

 

4. SO ON AND SO FORTH -

 

Don't argue with me - write your Member of parliament and ASIC and the FEDS and asked what's going on! and where has the money gone??????.....

These arguments are petty from a rigged committee set up by Cori Bernadi . The the one that said says'same sex marriage leads to beastiality.

 

And naturally each area manager is a different person.

 

I would be much more concerned of the food regulator which is a run by the maufacturers and dictates what is allowed. They not the government or us, what they can put in food.

 

It can be nano particles now and they want GMO next and for it not be labelled as such.

 

That is something to actually be concerned by.

 

 

[winsor68]

HALAL CERTIFICATION IS A TOTAL SHAM AND CON.After an Australian Senate Enquiry a couple of months ago found that:

 

1. Each area was managed by a different Islamic person.

 

2. That NO CONSISTANT RULES OR STANDARDS WERE INPLACE in Australia were it was up to this "Individual Islamic Person". (WHAT A JOKE)

 

3. The MONEY received for the so-called approval could not be traced as to its END USE.

 

4. SO ON AND SO FORTH -

 

Don't argue with me - write your Member of parliament and ASIC and the FEDS and asked what's going on! and where has the money gone??????.....

I wouldn't argue with you...if that is what you took away from the enquiry it would be as pointless as trying to drive nails into kevlar... you have lost all credibility.

 

 

[IBob]

BTW IBob, you are from Wairarapa?What is that, some small isolated place in NZ away from everywhere, looks like it in the pictures.

 

Exactly what day to day experience have you had surrounded by tens of thousands of Muslims in a city?

 

I find that people who are NIMBYs (not necessarily by choice) to be quite liberal on the subject and many who actually have to accept it in their face daily are quite put out by it.

Thanks for asking Bex. No I'm not. I've lived and worked in six countries over the years (including Australia), with work carried out in quite a few more than that.

 

But yes, the Wairarapa is a country area of NZ, and where i choose to live at present.

 

 

[IBob]

Hi IBob, the reason for drawing lines is to stop this country becoming like the ones they fled from. I've had a bit to do with them and they are not nice countries like NZ , even though they sure have some good people there.If you have a problem with that, please explain why.

Hi Bruce. I had not realised there was a risk of Australia turning into country like the ones some of the Muslims have fled.

If this is the case, then I can see why you would be so concerned.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

[Bruce Tuncks]

This was Gawler today, with the dust from the fire zone, 30 knot wind and 40 degrees temperature. No flying at all.

 

Just like the middle east, and with no help at all from Moslem immigrants.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Thanks for asking Bex. No I'm not. I've lived and worked in six countries over the years (including Australia), with work carried out in quite a few more than that.

And ... ?

 

I've worked and lived in China in my 11th year now, I have quite happily followed their laws and cultures and have never attempted to impress my laws and cultures upon them.

 

I see idiots come here, mainly arrogant individual Americans, who believe their laws and cultures should take precedent - they never last long and I have been happy to see them leave. I would be happy to see anyone arrive in Australia not willing to adjust accordingly leave again.

 

Now I'll ask you again, why do Australians have to change to suit new comers? The Greeks came and changed, the Italians changed, the Macedeons changed, even the Lebos changed, Vietnamese, Filipino, Islanders, etc, etc, but for some reason Muslims come and don't have to change because we all have to change for them?

 

Almost a moot question because we are being forced to change, I would like to understand the forces in place causing this and why.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"change in a hamburger recipe"

 

I haven't had a "Hawaiian-burger" in such a long time ( three decades at least) when I found there's No ham (PORK) in it.

 

I did ask for a Hawaiian-burger but when I had a bite it was either Sheep/ goat/ or perhaps Dog.

 

When I took it back I was told they don't use pork.

 

Another favourite gone.

 

Hope it's not made me a religious fruit cake, ( like : shuuus: keep it to my-self.

 

Spacesailor

 

 

[bexrbetter]

when I had a bite it was ...perhaps Dog.

Stop gloating you lucky bastard.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Got a bite out of you!

 

spacesailor

 

 

[winsor68]

And ... ?I've worked and lived in China in my 11th year now, I have quite happily followed their laws and cultures and have never attempted to impress my laws and cultures upon them.

 

I see idiots come here, mainly arrogant individual Americans, who believe their laws and cultures should take precedent - they never last long and I have been happy to see them leave. I would be happy to see anyone arrive in Australia not willing to adjust accordingly leave again.

 

Now I'll ask you again, why do Australians have to change to suit new comers? The Greeks came and changed, the Italians changed, the Macedeons changed, even the Lebos changed, Vietnamese, Filipino, Islanders, etc, etc, but for some reason Muslims come and don't have to change because we all have to change for them?

 

Almost a moot question because we are being forced to change, I would like to understand the forces in place causing this and why.

What sort of crack are you smoking to think we have to change to suit Muslims any more than we have had to change to suit any other group of people? Seriously!

 

 

[kaz3g]

Nev, you should read the story of Hermannsburg mission near Alice Springs. How true-believing Lutherans from Germany sacrificed their lives and only succeeded in getting the local natives to add another few spirits to their collection. They left as broken people.How would a desert aborigine relate to stories like the prodigal son? They had no concept of property. Gosh they never even learned to wash their faces when this could have stopped them going blind from trachoma. Washing your face is an impossible ask for a desert-dweller.

Well did the missionaries do any good? Yes I think they stopped the aborigines getting killed by squatters.

Hi Bruce

 

You only have to go as far as Alice Springs to see how a proud and capable race, able to survive in the desert with only primitive tools was "civilised" by the English and how they live today.

 

The Lutherans at Hermannsburg did provide a level of protection for the Anunga from predominantly English white settlers although they also adopted a very patriarchal style of management that broke down the old lore and left the way open for the alcohol abuse and family violence that is rife in the communities today. I have killing boomerangs, spears and beads and other artefacts my dad collected along with a Batterbee watercolour all from Hermannsburg in the early 40's when he was there. I spent time up there in the late 80's and have been back a few times since. I also lived in the Upper Gascoyne in WA in the 70's. The red dirt seems to affect your blood.

 

I have a portrait of the man known as One Pound Jimmy hanging in my bedroom. It's a pastel on black velvet and was left to me by my dad who spent a lot of time in the NT during and after the war. It shows a man of magnificent physique proud of his culture and it sends me back in time whenever I look at it.. Gwoja Tjungarrayi was one of a handful of Warlpiri who survived a massacre carried out by squatters led by a police officer after some cattle were speared. Men, women and children were shot in their hundreds and no-one was ever made accountable. Jimmy's great nephew is an old mate of mine and, in the best oral tradition, he speaks of the massacre as the "killing times".

 

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/hindsight/the-two-lives-of-one-pound-jimmy/2974226

 

Greg, my mate, has lived over in Victoria for a number of years now but his knowledge of his country and his attachment to it is amazing. I showed him the WAC chart for the Yuendemu area and he immediately pointed out where I could find water. If you have been there you will know just how precious such knowledge might be. I have several times seen and heard folks here in my home town making it clear that they think of him as a lesser person because of his colour and Aboriginal English. Yet he speaks 5 languages and English is his third. If you have tried to learn an Aboriginal language you will understand his is no mean feat.

 

As far as the Aboriginal people not knowing to wash their eyes to avoid trachoma and sandy blight, we ought to remember that surgeons were still heaping shit on Joseph Lister in the 1880's when he tried to get them to wash their hands after using the lavatory and between operations. This was the same period when the missionaries arrived on the Finke. It took us a long time to get clever about infection, too.

 

Kaz

 

 

[IBob]

And ... ?I've worked and lived in China in my 11th year now, I have quite happily followed their laws and cultures and have never attempted to impress my laws and cultures upon them.

 

I see idiots come here, mainly arrogant individual Americans, who believe their laws and cultures should take precedent - they never last long and I have been happy to see them leave. I would be happy to see anyone arrive in Australia not willing to adjust accordingly leave again.

 

Now I'll ask you again, why do Australians have to change to suit new comers? The Greeks came and changed, the Italians changed, the Macedeons changed, even the Lebos changed, Vietnamese, Filipino, Islanders, etc, etc, but for some reason Muslims come and don't have to change because we all have to change for them?

 

Almost a moot question because we are being forced to change, I would like to understand the forces in place causing this and why.

And....? you tell me, Bex, it was you who brought up the subject of who lived where and what that may mean.

 

As for people 'having to change to suit newcomers': I would suggest that the arrival of every one of the peoples you mention in Australia has evolved and changed the culture of the place. And the idea that they all somehow magically changed to be just like everyone else there when they hit the shores, but the Muslims didn't is typical of the simplistic binary 'thinking' we now seem to be getting: it's not white so it must be black.

 

 

[IBob]

And ... ?I've worked and lived in China in my 11th year now, I have quite happily followed their laws and cultures and have never attempted to impress my laws and cultures upon them.

 

I see idiots come here, mainly arrogant individual Americans, who believe their laws and cultures should take precedent - they never last long and I have been happy to see them leave. I would be happy to see anyone arrive in Australia not willing to adjust accordingly leave again.

 

Now I'll ask you again, why do Australians have to change to suit new comers? The Greeks came and changed, the Italians changed, the Macedeons changed, even the Lebos changed, Vietnamese, Filipino, Islanders, etc, etc, but for some reason Muslims come and don't have to change because we all have to change for them?

 

Almost a moot question because we are being forced to change, I would like to understand the forces in place causing this and why.

And I see you 'quite happily following the laws and cultures and never attempting to impress your laws and culture in China":

 

Quote:

 

"Went to the Australian Consulate last month to find the 2 guards inside the consulate couldn't speak a word of English.

 

Yes it's in China but still, once you step inside you are technically on Australian soil ....

 

Last year I had a problem with dealings with the Consulate and officially complained to the Consulate General both at Chengdu and Beijing, Re: the Chinese staff not understanding what issues I had from an Australian cultural perspective."

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Hi kaz, I grew up in Alice Springs and have been to Yuendumu a few times. My father planned the electric power for the place in the 50's and my son set up computer networking for the school about 10 years ago and I helped them both.

 

Your writings are correct but they do reflect that you are a kind and generous man who sees the best in people.

 

There is another side to aboriginal culture that I find horrifying, that is the way they treated their women.

 

As for the alcohol abuse, I blame us whitefellers for that. But Yuendumu is a dry community, as decided democratically by the aborigines. A big proportion of aborigines are teetotal, much more than whites. Last time I went there I was stopped at 2 police roadblocks enforcing the alcohol ban.

 

The alcoholics migrate to Alice Springs where they give the bad impression we know so well.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Thanks Bruce for your kind response. There are many problems in Yuendemu today and Family Violence is at the forefront. My mate got involved with a woman of the wrong skin group (wrong way) and was speared in the thigh as punishment. The women gave him a pasting with null nullas, too. Then his relative killed someone in a fight and my mate is now part of the payback. They'll kill him if he returns. Same family as the footballer.

 

Grog was a huge problem in WA when I was there and I saw the results of some brutal bashings in Carnarvon and Meeka. It's wonderful that there are now numerous dry communities to provide a barrier from the towns, but the effect is diluted by those who transition between one and the other. The bottom "paddock" of my old place is now the home of the Burrungaurrah community http://parks.dpaw.wa.gov.au/park/mt-augustus which is dry but the WA Govt is apparently intent on closing it and a number of others to reduce costs. I fear they have their collective heads in the sand.

 

Kaz

 

 

[pylon500]

What sort of crack are you smoking to think we have to change to suit Muslims any more than we have had to change to suit any other group of people? Seriously!

Seriously?!

I'm not smoking any crack, but my question would be, "What rock are you living under?"

 

It may be true that 95% of the moslyms that move here are actually getting away from the oppression that has grown in their own countries.

 

But that other 5% have latched onto our pathetic PC crowd (that believe minorities need to be heard and catered for) that are demanding their rights take precedent, or we get called discriminatory and or racist!

 

I guess living in Mackay you only get to see the odd Asian tourist, but trust me, having moved out of Sydney nearly ten years ago, every time I go back, the change hits you in the face.

 

And we are at least ten years behind what's happening in Europe.

 

 

[facthunter]

Kaz I fear they are closing those outback camps on a pretext of cost or whatever then it will be that are not actively visited and lose the land claim rights.

 

The alcohol robs them of any dignity they might feel in their circumstances but the profit motive is all that matters for most, so they want to sell as much as they can regardless of the bad efects... Abuse of alcohol or drugs is not confined to one race. Most Aborigines I have met don't know a lot of other tribes lingo, and there is something like 100 or more but they all seem to know what "humbug" means. They also have managed to exist in some harsh places for 50,000 years though it was once a lot more fertile than it is now. They could like in a place where we wouldn't last 3 hours. I remember the black tracker who said of Lindy Chamberlain. ("She didn't do it poor bastard) Those fella's don't lie their whole reputation relies on it.

 

Their rules on marriage are very strict not just inter race ( which is probably not really on, strictly speaking) and half cast (yella Fella's) might have been dispensed with, here and there.Their dreamtime stuff seems strange to us, Rainbow serpents etc, but we have some equally weird ideas if you think about it . but their land respect of, and connection to it is totally part of their being. What we have done to some (most of it ) must be so devastating to them in their circumstances and it keeps getting worse. Nev

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon the rainbow serpent makes a lot of sense. More sense than Jehovah. When you look at a river from on high it looks like a giant serpent.

 

On to aborigines...there was some inter-tribal genetic transfer, in that if a groups from 2 tribes encountered each other, the weaker side would herd their women over to be raped or speared. If raped, then no fight was needed and all was well. Gosh why didn't we think of this in Vietnam?

 

And IBob, would you allow an immigrant group to have their Sharia law? This has been asked for in Europe, so its not that hypothetical. Yes or no?

 

 

[facthunter]

Well here we have rich person's law. Works for those who can afford it. Similar to the US , The most litigious country in the world by far. It's one thing to have a good legal system . It's another to have it equally available to all.. Most countries go by the golden rule. Those who have all the gold make all the rules. Another version of we have the best politicians that money can buy. Nev