Rapidly Changing Times for the worse in this great Country

[Phil Perry]

Sorry to hear that, Phil, if not surprised.I think, however, your final statement could do with a little clarification, since the Winterval bizzo seems intended to include all sorts of groups of people. Not "a certain group of people", as you state

This from the Telegraph in 2014, readily Googled in about 45secs:

 

"In 1997 and 1998, Birmingham City Council ran a three-month promotional campaign called Winterval.

 

It included celebrations of Hallowe’en, Bonfire Night, Diwali, Ramadan, Eid, Hannukah, Advent, Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year’s Eve and Chinese New Year.

 

Although never intended to serve as a substitute for Christmas, the term Winterval is still cited as a prime example of the so-called war on Christmas."

 

While i (too) despair at the ongoing inroads and stupidities of political correctness, and while I am also opposed to the idea of any group within a society subverting the laws with laws of their own (if indeed that is the effect) I think we still need to keep our facts straight. In fact I think it's even more important to keep our facts straight, or we risk becoming just another mindless mass insisting that our view is the only right view?

Thanks for your comments Bob,. . . I should have expanded upon my trailing comment "certain group of people" to make it clear that this certain group are the minority of activists who scream "WAAAAAYCIST " at every opportunity. . . .this did not refer to Muslims per se,. . . these handwringers will jump out of the woodwork at the slightest chance to downplay ANY traditional festival or ocurrence in the UK. they are renown for it, I gather you have these noisy groups in Australia also. My eldest Daughter works for Birmingham Local authority in admin,. . . so I tend to hear about stuff which is not in the public domain. . . . I can say this happily as she is married and does not bear my surname. To my knowledge, no muslim, sikh, or any other religion represented within the population has complained about the term "Christmas" . . . the only complainers are the minority, noisy indiginous bedwetters hereinbefore mentioned and they make me puke.

 

As for the McDonalds empire, I rarely partake in their foodstuffs as I think it is poor value for money and the quality varies widely. I gave it up many years ago, and I do realise that nearly all of these outlets are franchised and that, as businesses, the bottom line is all that matters. I remember some guy telling me that they'd now stopped serving the McRib. . . .as this was made from ( horror of horrors ) PORK. Don't want to upset any Jewish customers obviously, as this would NOT be kosher.

 

Phil:cheezy grin:

 

Incidentally,. . . . the abovementioned handwringers are trying to organise a petition to have the Winterval festival again. . . . they never give up. . . . .irrespective of what the indiginous folksies want. . . . . . .but, then again, we are only a mere 87 percent of the total population. . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

I've got nothing against Christmas - we've got the tree, kids looking forward to pressies, everyone's going to eat and drink too much etc etc. (Hell, the Asian bloke wearing a Santa hat who made my lamb kebab yesterday wished me a happy Christmas - I don't think we're in any danger of losing it to the "handwringers").

 

As an atheist I find most of the carols nonsensical and, after a while, bloody annoying - but I wouldn't want people to stop them because it's part of the whole thing.

 

However I do think we need to be honest about the origins of Christmas - it's not Jesus' birthday, it's not even a christian tradition at all. Like so many other holidays, it's been hijacked by the early christians because they knew that people weren't going to give up pagan celebrations. Christmas is a mix of several non-christian celebrations - Saturnalia, the birthday of Mithra, and the midwinter feast, celebrating the turning point where the days will start getting longer.

 

Easter is another one - ever wonder what bunny rabbits and eggs had to do with with an execution? It's because the celebration was pre-christian - from Ēostre, the goddess of fertility. The old Saxons celebrated by making babies, which was much more fun than the droning chants of the christian priests.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Great Marty,. . .then we ( well,... me, as a sort of. . .agnosticist. . . . ) have no argument.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Phil, we have plenty of handwringers here too. Their greatest achievement is the demolition of our state-school system.

 

When I went to school, the tough kids had to shut up, they didn't like it but they at least learned to read and write. And the good kids got a decent education. Now the tough kids run the classes... the other day I asked my 8 year-old grandson after school just what he did that day. He said " nothing much Grandpa, Seb was being naughty today".

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Thanks Bruce,. . .but see my comment on OFF TOPIC. . . .( Immigration thread. . .)

 

This is the FUNNY CHANNEL. . .Y'know,. . . nothing serious,. . . just jokey stuff. . . . like " A Sikh walked into a pub. . .the other folks said. . .'ere mate,. . .I 'ope yer head gets better soon. . . " .y'know,. . .stuff like that. . . . ( ! )

 

.surprised a moderator has not mentioned this already guys. . . . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

I wouldn't have thought to seek a sick Sikh there...

 

 

[facthunter]

Agnosticist?? That fence will cut your @r$e in half eventually, and you'll have a hell of a job walking home from the Pub. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Well to be fair, even Richard Dawkins is an agnostic because using the scientific method, we can't be 100% sure there is no supernatural being. I call myself an atheist because the likelihood of a supernatural being existing is miniscule. Same way I can be pretty confident that there aren't any fairies at the bottom of my garden, but I can't be 100% sure.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

We learned all our racism from UK tv, Alf Garnett, Love Thy Neighbour and so on. Without it we never would have heard of a Scouse git, a nig-nog, a jungle bunny and so on. But we have been left behind on the latest round of ...isn. Apart from rag head, which comes from the US, we haven't learned a new crop of anti-Middle eastern terms that we can throw into everyday conversation. Has UK television gone soft?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Well to be fair, even Richard Dawkins is an agnostic because using the scientific method, we can't be 100% sure there is no supernatural being. I call myself an atheist because the likelihood of a supernatural being existing is miniscule. Same way I can be pretty confident that there aren't any fairies at the bottom of my garden, but I can't be 100% sure.

We've got lots of fairies in our garden mate,. . . . .Oh, . . no,. . .'ang on, . . .no,. . .they're Gnomes. . . . .

 

( I'll get me coat. . . )

 

Agnosticist?? That fence will cut your @r$e in half eventually, and you'll have a hell of a job walking home from the Pub. Nev

I pray to god you're wrong there Nev. . . . ( but I didn't take a fence. . . .)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

We learned all our racism from UK tv, Alf Garnett, Love Thy Neighbour and so on. Without it we never would have heard of a Scouse git, a nig-nog, a jungle bunny and so on. But we have been left behind on the latest round of ...isn. Apart from rag head, which comes from the US, we haven't learned a new crop of anti-Middle eastern terms that we can throw into everyday conversation. Has UK television gone soft?

My local corner shop owner is a Sikh,. . . name of Raged Singh Nakwhal . . . and yet he doesn't wear the turban. . . . .he calls other Sikhs who DO wear the symbol of faith "Warheads" . . . . ( He says that wearers of an ORANGE turban are militants. . .( ? ) brilliant sense of self deprecating humour. . . . . I love the Sikhs. . . been to several Sikh weddings, . . . had to crawl home from the last one, too much scotch. . .one bottle per male guest, and if you hide the bottle you get another one immediately. . . .

 

Far more risky to one's sobriety than attending an Irish wake. . . . ( No leprechaun bashing intended BTW. . .)

 

 

[Yenn]

I was on holiday in India in 1984, when Mrs Ghandi was assasinated, by Sikhs. Our tour leader had encouraged all of us to buy turban material and wear a turban. I really looked the part, but after the assasination, no more turbans. Just being foreigners we were stoned when we cycled through rural villages, but at least we were not like those in Delhi who were locked in their hotels.

 

I can remember the Indian troops during WW2 the Sikhs wore turbans then.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I was on holiday in India in 1984, when Mrs Ghandi was assasinated, by Sikhs. Our tour leader had encouraged all of us to buy turban material and wear a turban. I really looked the part, but after the assasination, no more turbans. Just being foreigners we were stoned when we cycled through rural villages, but at least we were not like those in Delhi who were locked in their hotels.I can remember the Indian troops during WW2 the Sikhs wore turbans then.

I remember the first Police constable in Birmingham wearing a "Badged" turban as part of his uniform,. . .was a bit of a novelty back then. I since found that the officer was given a specially made hard plastic shell to wear beneath the turban to protect his head from impacts. . . this bit of info was not made public at the time, but a darned good idea all the same. ( There was no sign of a ceremonial dagger though. . . ) Turban wearing bus drivers were a common sight in London during the late sixties too.

 

I watched a programme called "Mastermind" on tv a couple of nights back, one of the contestants was a Sikh, with a bright red turrban and bushy beard, wearing a kilt and sporran, spoke with a scots accent and his specialist subject was. . . . . . . . . The origin and pattern types / colours of Tribal Tartan in Scotland. . . . . dunno if he won the round as I missed the end of the programme.

 

Yes, I remember Mrs. Ghandi being shot, I guess there are zealots in every pack of cards who don't appear to understand what the result of their actions may create. . . .

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Just being foreigners we were stoned when we cycled through rural villages,

You hippies you .....

 

 

[Phil Perry]

You hippies you .....

. . . . .You rang ? ? ?

 

 

[planet47]

Good on ya John - aviation laughter was the topic for this thread I think

 

 

[spacesailor]

Well! we all Fly off at different tangents

 

spacesailor

 

 

[coljones]

It annoys me that we are being influenced by superstitious nonsense from pre-scientific days. They didn't even know about germs in those days.Some of the stuff makes some sort of sense if you imagine those ancient priests trying to discern what certain powerful spirits were trying to tell them. The spirits made people get sick and die.

These days we can see how absurd a lot of it is.

 

There is a saying "if you can be made to believe absurdities then you can be made to commit atrocities"

The chiefs and priests worked out that pork was causing sickness so they told the people not to eat it because god commanded it. Saved a lot of lives. In places like Australia Pork Production is very hygienic and disease free but you can't say that about the rest of the world which is why you have to cook pork well OS or adopt Mosaic, Kosher, Halal or non pork diets.

One of the best Bunnings sausages in a roll I have ever had was halal from the local muslim girls football team at Greenacre. Probably a good beef sausage, not the usual non-descript, fatty, rancid, indescribable ones usually dished up. Halal - made to a standard not a price.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yes Col they got some bits right but lots of bits wrong. They never figured out germs for example and could have saved many more lives with some washing of hands. It's a serious difficulty for the Jesus story that he didn't know about germs or he didn't tell.

 

I agree about sausages, its not easy to buy good ones and still lots of fatty ones.

 

 

[Yenn]

The reason that Jesus didn't mention germs was that germs were unheard of in thoes days. The bible is supposedly the word of God, but nowhere is anything that was unknown in the years that it was written mentioned. How come Noah didn't try to get the dinosaurs in the ark?

 

 

[facthunter]

Because the universe is only 6300 years old. Everyone in the USA knows that.

 

 

[skeptic36]

. How come Noah didn't try to get the dinosaurs in the ark?

 

Because the universe is only 6300 years old. Everyone in the USA knows that.

Nope, it was because they where too tall.....

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Doesn't matter what GOD knows, they guy holding the pen only has the ability to write what he understands.

 

Try explaining nuclear fission to a Kalahari Bushman who has never even seen a school, let along been in one, and whose only education has been Grandad showing him where lizard tracks mean there's food under that bush over there.

 

Now have him write down what you explained... Do you think a physicist would understand the result?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Nope, it was because they where too tall.....

Nope, they kept eating the goats and Noah figured he wouldn't have any bed partners in very short time.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nope, they kept eating the goats and Noah figured he wouldn't have any bed partners in very short time.

I thought that was Yanos the Greek, not Noah.

 

"You see those houses? I built those houses. But nobody call me Yanos the Builder.

 

You see that fishing boat? I sailed that boat. But nobody call me Yanos the Fisherman.

 

You see those olive trees? I planted those trees. But nobody call me Yanos the Farmer.

 

....but I f*ck ONE goat...."