Aircraft without radios

[Pearo]

Can I say one thing. Aviation safety has constantly improved over the years. If there is a way to make things safer then why would anyone in their right mind want to avoid that?

 

I just started flying an aircraft with Traffic Information, and I am in total shock at how many aircraft I pass that I have not seen and clearly have not seen me. We all know (or should) the issues with the human eye and how the brain processes visual information. I just dont understand the mentality of not wanting to have a radio.

 

WRT to radio issues, a radio by no means should be an excuse for not maintaining good airmanship, its just a tool to aid it.

 

 

[spacesailor]

What happens when a low time pilot meets a Casa ramp check inspector, And he hasn't passed that radio exam yet!,

 

Will said inspector tell him to return the borrowed Hand Held RX to it's owner?.

 

spacesailor.

 

 

[biggles]

What happens when a low time pilot meets a Casa ramp check inspector, And he hasn't passed that radio exam yet!,Will said inspector tell him to return the borrowed Hand Held RX to it's owner?.

spacesailor.

That "low time pilot " should not be anywhere with a radio ( borrowed or not ) without an authority to use it , particularly where the carriage of an operational radio is mandated ....Bob

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Its a slippery slope to use one incident as the basis to mandate something for everyone.Why stop at radios - BRS, ADSB ....I might be more sympathetic to mandatory radio if more than a small minority used them appropriately. Most weekends I find myself wishing there were more non-radio aircraft rather than less ! In my day, I'm sure the RBR prohibited the use of GPS ;-) Cheers

John

Hiya John,. . . .the point I was making is that just BASIC comms ability would be nice and good for a bit of added safety. . . . in fact good manners.

 

I appreciate what you mean about pilots who rabbit on unneccesarily, . . they are vexations to the spirit.

 

And Kasper, I mentioned Popham only because you did. Yes, It's certainly cute with both runways in use at the same time.

 

You may be quoting brand new costs for comms equipment also I assume, I got a pair of good quality, near new helmets with Communnica style headsets with interface, and a secondhand IC A3 for £325 as a package. I made the antenna myself. Perhaps the used gear market is not so good in Australia, I know a lot of pilots who fly on a budget. ( some on a shoestring ! )

 

I'm not saying that a radio would neccesarily make a poor airman a good one either. But it would be nice to know where the bugger is. . . .

 

 

[dutchroll]

Just because pilots stuff up radio procedures doesn't mean having radios is a bad idea.

 

This is a little like saying that bad drivers means that cars are a bad idea. Well how about teaching people to use them properly and how about those same people take a little bit of care to do so? And like you should keep your car in good working order, how about doing the same for your radio? If you don't like working on your car, find a mechanic. If you don't like working on your radio, find someone who can!

 

If all of the above is beyond your capabilities or too expensive, maybe find another hobby?

 

Basic Radio Procedure:

 

1) Think.

 

2) Press button.

 

3) Say stuff which was carefully considered in step 1).

 

 

[DWF]

4. Leg go button.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I head a radio call on Wednesday from a glider tug climbing across in front of me. I looked hard, saw and avoided. Why would I fly without a radio?

 

 

[SDQDI]

Flying with radios certainly makes life easier, I do it myself, but I don't think we need to make them mandatory. Where do we stop, adsb, BRS, auto pilot.

 

We are ridiculous hypocrites sometimes, we whine and moan about extra regulation but we think that it should be mandatory for everyone to have the gear we have.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I agree that additional mandatories will annoy some of the people some / all of the time. I'm not advocating that.

 

My point, ( sorry to labour it. . .) was just the commonsense ( to me )value of having at least some way, to announce your presence, or monitor others.

 

My car doesnt have super you beaut ceramic brakes and a nitro garlic injected engine, it's just a basic safe car. . . probably not a brilliant analogy, but it goes and it stops, and these facilities protect me and other road users. in the words of some great men "I'm just Sayin' . . . ."

 

 

[facthunter]

Most people are lost without their I phone being used all the time but having a radio with your plane is a hard ask??? The see & be seen concept has been examined thoroughly many times and found lacking You need ALL you have got. It's not one or the other..Nev

 

 

[dutchroll]

Flying with radios certainly makes life easier, I do it myself, but I don't think we need to make them mandatory. Where do we stop, adsb, BRS, auto pilot.We are ridiculous hypocrites sometimes, we whine and moan about extra regulation but we think that it should be mandatory for everyone to have the gear we have.

I don't know that a "slippery slope" argument in this case is particularly valid. A means of communication when you're up there in the wild blue yonder mixing it with others is a fairly basic safety item, I think. Unless you're only operating on your farm in the boonies, in which case the regs allow you to operate without one anyway.

The reverse problem is that if you don't make it mandatory, experience shows some idiot will cause a serious incident by deciding not to have one when they really should have.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

As I have previously stated ...I can not believe we are even having this discussion

 

Dutch does this for a job and it is imperitive for his operations of course carrying hundred of people in a day...but just because we fly by ourselves or with a pax why should it be any different!!!

 

There are lots of other more important issue we should be talking about not something that should be a STANDARD of operations of any aircraft.

 

I am passionate about this and not because I have been involved in the radio industry it to me is purely a safety issue when flying. I want every single aircraft to have a radio and use it because when I am flying I want to KNOW whats happening and where. Every single pilot MUST be looking out when they fly to be safe and a radio just adds to that safety margin

 

Mark

 

 

[facthunter]

There could be areas exempted, and a form of portable allowed, where a plane doesn't have an electrical system. You will still have to contend with radio FAIL situations, and develop procedures. I find it difficult to believe what crappy radio performance we still have. (The equipment as it operates) Radio used to need shielded ignition systems and suppressors on commutators /slip rings. Nev

 

 

[Mark11]

I find my radio indispensable.

 

I feel safe with it.

 

Listening to the radio calls helps me locate other aircraft on the ground and in the air.

 

I always make radio calls to let others know where I am- and I'm sure that the parachute dropping turbo prop plane appreciates it!

 

 

[Happyflyer]

This thread has deteriorated to a fairly low level. Might be time to get onto another subject snd try and remain a bit more civil.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

In my original post, I didn't advocate mandatory fitment of radios to ALL aircraft. What I did say is that I believe they should be mandatory to attend fly ins where high performance aircraft will be doing flying displays.

 

However ...

 

Seeing some of the tissue thin justifications put forward in some of the posts for NOT fitting radios, I have come to the position that if you're flying around out there without a radio, I don't want you anywhere near me.

 

I accept that as a PIC, I must keep a lookout for other aircraft, and I do. But I expect the other pilots to do their part to help me know where they are and what they're doing. Without a radio, you are effectively saying "Everyone else has to keep a specially watchful lookout for me because I can't be bothered to let anyone know where I am or what I'm doing."

 

Here's the news: My safety is my responsibility. Your safety is NOT my responsibility, but if you go radio-less, you make both our safety MY responsibility.

 

As others have said, when you have spent the $20K-$200K on an aircraft and then spent the money getting qualified to use it and then the money to maintain it, if you can't be bothered spending a bit extra on some kind of comms YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THE AIR.

 

 

[Guernsey]

I would like to add my two cents worth but it seems lately that when I reply to a post it suddenly disappears.

 

Am I doing something wrong?

 

Alan.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I would like to add my two cents worth but it seems lately that when I reply to a post it suddenly disappears.Am I doing something wrong?

Alan.

No that one hasn't disappeared.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Correct, but sometimes I haven't just added to the post as in this case, but have replied to a specific post by a member (clicking on the 'reply' ) and the entire

 

forum subject has disappeared.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That sometimes happens to me as well, Guernsey. Maybe it disappears while someone is adding to that forum.

 

 

[Ungrounded]

That "low time pilot " should not be anywhere with a radio ( borrowed or not ) without an authority to use it , particularly where the carriage of an operational radio is mandated ....Bob

Question: Why shouldn't a low time pilot without a radio endorsement carry and listen to, a hand held air-band transciever?

 

Granted they could not use air-space that required them to transmit but outside of that?

 

 

[storchy neil]

this story cant be true what some have answered not having radio bloody well read my first post 23 I now carry second radio

 

a plane crashed several years ago radio was being repaired not lot off damage

 

had radio installed and working would have been found in mutch better health

 

bit like making ELB mandatory it should have been before take off

 

not after x amount off distance so the plane must be ok until that distance what planet are the safety experts so called experts on neil

 

 

[biggles]

Question: Why shouldn't a low time pilot without a radio endorsement carry and listen to, a hand held air-band transciever?Granted they could not use air-space that required them to transmit but outside of that?

When I did my endorsement years ago it was not just whether I could transmit correctly ,but also be able to interpret correctly ,what I was in fact hearing . It takes some time to be proficient in the operation of the radio but that improves with time . If he had had no instruction and supervision in its use , one would ask is he 'up to scratch ' . One also wonders if he has a radio ,why on earth wouldn't he legalise its installation/operation . What is his problem ? ..... Bob

 

 

[kasper]

this story cant be true what some have answered not having radio bloody well read my first post 23 I now carry second radioa plane crashed several years ago radio was being repaired not lot off damage

had radio installed and working would have been found in mutch better health

 

bit like making ELB mandatory it should have been before take off

 

not after x amount off distance so the plane must be ok until that distance what planet are the safety experts so called experts on neil

Sorry but this is a post that IS exactly the slippery slope other posts have mentioned on this thread and been poo pooed about:

1. Need radio or you are unsafe

 

2. better to carry a second portable one

 

3. Need ELB for all flights

 

so next is what? a second portable ELB just in case, mandatory modes S with ADSB, fire extibuisher by every door (god forbid you don't have doors) and full airframe recovery chute all as mandated?

 

If this is the direction of recreational flying then sorry I am sorry for the sport and I think it time I find a new hobby ... because with this direction the safest you can get is to stay on the ground and just have the aircraft as a nice static model ... much safer not to fly it at all

 

 

[Aldo]

Guy's/Girls

 

I have received a PM from a fellow member indicating that my language may not have been appropriate for this forum in this, I can only assume this was relating to my comments around being a moron, I apologize if I have offended anyone but please understand the importance of having and using a radio in your aircraft.

 

Aldo