Aircraft without radios

[frank marriott]

You say no taxi call? May I again refer you to CAAP 166.

The start of that section, 7.3.4, gives more explanation. On its own it appears mandatory :

(The whole thing depends on traffic and commen sense)

 

Table 2 sets out the recommended broadcasts, but pilots may use discretion in determining the number and type of broadcasts they make. For example, when operating from a private or remote airstrip, a single broadcast declaring an intention to take-off and track in particular direction may be all that is required where there is no response to the initial transmission.

 

Table 2 – Recommended positional broadcasts in the vicinity of a non-controlled aerodrome

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

In the ATSB booklet "a pilots guide to staying safe in the vicinity of non-towered aerodromes" it also states the 6 minimum broadcasts that pilots pilots should make when operating from non towered aerodromes. Same as stated by Robbo.

 

Quote"broadcasting on the CTAF effectively helps reduce the risk of mid air collisions or reduced separation by SUPPORTING pilots visual lookout for traffic. This is known as radio-alerted see-and-avoid"

 

A no brainer really

 

 

[Robbo]

I mean people need to use there brains when it comes to this.

 

There are times when you may need to make more calls but not constantly.

 

I will use an example of something that happened recently:

 

A couple of student pilots calling everything they did taxi, enter runway, backtrack, roll, crosswind, down wind, base, final and other calls I have never heard of.

 

Meanwhile a King Air is 12 miles out as I had him visual meanwhile he was never able to get a call in until he was 2.5 miles from the airport as these students were clogging up the radios with there dribble!!

 

Not to mention that you can not even understand half of there calls due to another nationality, I am not sure how they pass there english assessment but thats an issue for another day.

 

Although I have to laugh when I do my level 6 english assessment I have to listen and be assesed on my ability to understand foreign air traffic control, not sure how that works for an english assesment but anyway.

 

TO MANY RADIO CALLS CAN ALSO CAUSE ACCIDENTS INSTEAD OF AVOIDING THEM.

 

 

[turboplanner]

In the ATSB booklet "a pilots guide to staying safe in the vicinity of non-towered aerodromes" it also states the 6 minimum broadcasts that pilots pilots should make when operating from non towered aerodromes. Same as stated by Robbo.Quote"broadcasting on the CTAF effectively helps reduce the risk of mid air collisions or reduced separation by SUPPORTING pilots visual lookout for traffic. This is known as radio-alerted see-and-avoid"

A no brainer really

CASA state that it helps reduce risk, or in other words the risk is increased without radio. So this meets the "foreseeable risk" test, yet they fail to say "must use radio" or even the weasly "should use etc" Could eventually backfire on them if a major accident occurs.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

I mean people need to use there brains when it comes to this.There are times when you may need to make more calls but not constantly.

 

I will use an example of something that happened recently:

 

A couple of student pilots calling everything they did taxi, enter runway, backtrack, roll, crosswind, down wind, base, final and other calls I have never heard of.

 

Meanwhile a King Air is 12 miles out as I had him visual meanwhile he was never able to get a call in until he was 2.5 miles from the airport as these students were clogging up the radios with there dribble!!

 

Not to mention that you can not even understand half of there calls due to another nationality, I am not sure how they pass there english assessment but thats an issue for another day.

 

Although I have to laugh when I do my level 6 english assessment I have to listen and be assesed on my ability to understand foreign air traffic control, not sure how that works for an english assesment but anyway.

 

TO MANY RADIO CALLS CAN ALSO CAUSE ACCIDENTS INSTEAD OF AVOIDING THEM.

I can relate to that, this time last year my passenger and I nearly became another statistic when a foreign student tried to land over the top when we were on short final at YYWG. Close enough to tell he was wearing Raybans.

 

 

[Aldo]

You say no taxi call? May I again refer you to CAAP 166.

Robbo

On our private strip, private farm?? Departure call yes as YTAA is 9 miles away

 

 

[Aldo]

Aldo, I always thought that the taxi call was one of the mandated calls CASA wanted everyone to make, why do you say it was not required for you (even though you did make the call)? Is it because you have a private strip? What frequency do you use for your taxi calls?

Happy

 

I use 126.7 as YTAA is 9 miles to the north, yes private.

 

Aldo

 

 

[Robbo]

RobboOn our private strip, private farm??

Don't see why it should be any different, you are still taxing to and taking off from a runway and as you pointed out above that there could be other aircraft in the vicinty.

I used to do low level survey work and we flew over peoples private strips at 300ft and doing 140knots and if we know the strip is there we would do a call and once or twice there was a departing aircraft who put a call out so we new someone was around.

 

 

[Aldo]

Don't see why it should be any different, you are still taxing to and taking off from a runway and as you pointed out above that there could be other aircraft in the vicinty.I used to do low level survey work and we flew over peoples private strips at 300ft and doing 140knots and if we know the strip is there we would do a call and once or twice there was a departing aircraft who put a call out so we new someone was around.

Robbo

 

Which is why I make the calls but obviously as you are allowed to fly to 5000 feet in class g without a radio pretty hard to make calls then.

 

I'm arguing the same side of this argument as you.

 

If you are just trying to pick holes in my example to mandate radios then I won't bother responding to your comments

 

Aldo

 

 

[Robbo]

won't bother responding to your comments

That is your choice, I am only stating the facts.

 

Not sure how you came to the conclusion of me picking holes in your post, you asked me a direct question and I responded.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Although I have to laugh when I do my level 6 english (English?) assessment

Not to mention that you can not even understand half of there (their?) calls due to another nationality, I am not sure how they pass there (their?) english (English?) assessment but thats an issue for another day.

 

I have to listen and be assesed (assessed?) on my ability to understand foreign air traffic control, not sure how that works for an english (English) assesment (assessment?) but anyway.

LOL, glass houses ... stones???

 

 

[Robbo]

LOL, glass houses ... stones???

Picking on my spelling?

Grrrr I hate typing on phones!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ah, those iphones can't spell for nuts.

 

 

[Robbo]

Ah, those iphones can't spell for nuts.

Yep.... Been some embarrassing moments

 

 

[Ungrounded]

Question guys: There isn't any legal problem or impediment with using a hand-held radio in an ultralight or homebuilt is there? I know CASA has a list of "approved" radio equipment that I've seen somewhere for VH registered aircraft. Is this applicable to RAA rego as well? Or are you OK to use a hand-held?

 

Someone (Spacesailer I think it was) made the comment a while back that there were no "approved" handhelds and I'm wondering what was meant by this.

 

 

[Robbo]

Question guys: There isn't any legal problem or impediment with using a hand-held radio in an ultralight or homebuilt is there? I know CASA has a list of "approved" radio equipment that I've seen somewhere for VH registered aircraft. Is this applicable to RAA rego as well? Or are you OK to use a hand-held?Someone (Spacesailer I think it was) made the comment a while back that there were no "approved" handhelds and I'm wondering what was meant by this.

"Even the smallest ultralight can have an aircraft band hand-held radio with a headset"

This is from the atsb staying safe publication mentioned earlier by ev17ifly2

 

 

[SDQDI]

Just be careful though as from memory only one handheld is approved but I can't remember which one, they were out of stock in Aus recently but I think they are available again now.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to front up to a ramp check with one that wasn't approved! Maybe someone in the know would be good enough to clear this up?

 

 

[djpacro]

.... because I have an Icom IC-A15:

 

http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/engage-blogs/engage-blogs/Spectrum/Supporting-aviation-communications-and-operations

 

 

[SDQDI]

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/approved-airband-hand-held-radios.135609/

[facthunter]

Are all of the radios we use TSO'd??? Nev

 

 

[Robbo]

Are all of the radios we use TSO'd??? Nev

Doubt it, lot of dodgy gear out there that is not even certified.

You can get on ebay and buy a vhf radio and transmit on the regional police channels!

 

G/F got a recording of one of these idiots telling all the cops to get ...... and go .... Themselves.

 

 

[facthunter]

Not saying it would have to be certified, but perhaps rated and in some way approved to a standard. The performance is generally BAD and the RT procedures BAD also. You can't bag the idea of using equipment when it's not working well or operated properly in any case. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Somebody said

 

Yep, but if he's 10nm on one side of the field and I'm 10nm on the other side (or some other combination of those numbers) I really want to know he's there.

 

Try that at Agnes Waters. Opposite sides of the field are different area frequencies. Of course you will all be on 126.7 when within 10 miles.

 

 

[Yenn]

You are correct there is only one handheld approved, but the reason has noting to do with safety, it is the usual CASA stupidity.

 

Over the years there have been many radios advertised for sale in Australia, bought also, but it is only in the last year or so they have been declared not legal. I havn't heard of any accidents caused by an illegal radio. but some were contributed to by bad radio operation.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

You are correct there is only one handheld approved, but the reason has noting to do with safety, it is the usual CASA stupidity.Over the years there have been many radios advertised for sale in Australia, bought also, but it is only in the last year or so they have been declared not legal. I havn't heard of any accidents caused by an illegal radio. but some were contributed to by bad radio operation.

Not sure CASA get the blame here. Probably ACMA. Australia imposes standards no radios meet, then has to give an exemption or no radio. ICOM radios good enough for US conditions but not for Australian conditions. Clowns.