What do you predict will change in recreational flying in the next few years?

[mAgNeToDrOp]

Strangely, both flying schools at Bunbury have removed the Raaus training from their websites recently. Whilst I think you can still ask for it, it's not advertised. I'll need to call in to confirm. They seem to be pushing RPL.

 

 

[robinsm]

One thing that will not change is fellow pilots who use expressions like "plastic wannabe fantastic pseudo GA aircraft". It is offensive to many and divides what should be a unified voice speaking up for our sport. Strangely, I don't read any disparaging comments going the other way, about simple and cheap ultralights. Maybe it is the old Aussie politics of envy?

Yep, deal with it. Dont care if you find it offensive. No envy involved, just a disapointment that we are loosing our grass roots ideals for the sake of wanting to get bigger, faster and prettier aircraft with all the GA privileges. Ultralights started as low cost, recreational aircraft that gave the average person a chance to fly, and a chance to build their own aircraft and take the responsibility for anything that happened. Now we see the Wannabes wanting controlled airspace privileges, more weight, getting more regulation etc. Sorry PM, I think maybe the time has come for another organisation,. or branch of the existing one catering for those that wish to stick to the original ideals and not the highly commercialised ones we have at present.

 

 

[Yenn]

What is to stop us havung the original ideals. We can still fly 95.10 and we can also fly heavier faster two seat aircraft. If being called plastic fantastic upsets you, hard luck. I fly a plane which has been RAAus registered for 12 years and it is not plastic. Does that make it one of the old school, or is it a pseudo GA plane? I also fly a GA plane does that make me some sort of undesirable member of RAAus.

 

Surely we are all interested in flying, first and foremost and what we fly is what we can afford or prefer. I have for many years said thet RAAus should encompass all recreational flying, that includes C172s Pipers and Drifters. In other words all aircraft flown purely for fun and not for profit. It would not necessarily be cheaper as I fly my GA plane for less standing costs than my RAAus plane. No annual registration and I don't have to pay membership fees to RAAus to be a legal pilot.

 

 

[SDQDI]

Personally I think splitting Raa would be sport aviation suicide. As for the ga wannabe vs grass roots flyers thing I think it has been done to death. Yes it would be nice to see an ultralight class with similar rules to the Americans but I don't see casa winding back the regs for us anytime soon BUT I do think the RAA as a whole could be doing more to push that way as well. As for everyone wanting more regulation IMO as I understand it Raa is trying to get more privileges and doing so without increasing regs for any except those that want the extra privilege. That will in no way negatively affect the grass root flyers. I would be more worried about people trying to get things like radios and brs's made mandatory.

 

 

[flyerme]

Fantastic!! Please share the details, and what help you need. I am sure some people on this forum can help, including me!!

Will do other thread soon :)

 

 

[flyerme]

 

A revolution in battery/solar panel technology and electric motors will create a boom in the light weight end of the recreational market (hopefully!).

I have an invader motor glider that was originally powered by a 14 hp engine... Been looking into an electric replacement... :)

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Personally I think splitting Raa would be sport aviation suicide.

This. Stick with the main divisions only.

 

It could work in theory, but then human nature and egos come along ...

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I think we should stick together. But why the cheap shots at the upmarket aircraft? I really don't understand it. Doesn't affect me, I fly GA mainly, but there seems to be a deep underlying resentment by some members and it only goes one way. I have never heard owners of modern composite aircraft rubbishing "cheap rag and tube crap" or anything like it. I think there is a mutual respect everywhere except for the sentiments expressed in some of the posts above. I have flown Drifters and LSA and GA aircraft for many years and never thought one was less fun or less acceptable than the other.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Gazelle, Xair, Zennith and 6 Jabiru at my field and all get on well. Only hear the complaints from a few here.

 

Mix of RPC, PPL & CPLs all interested in flying. Common interest unless someone does something stupid.

 

But of BS from an occasional visitor but ignor that.

 

 

[flyerme]

I think the aircraft diversity is a good thing. Gives each individual person and there circumstances a chance at entering our sport knowing they can own there own craft if so desire. From a 3k "Rag and tube to a 100k composite 95:10. Aircraft are still here and will always be... As will the beautiful choice in composite aircraft ..... as long as it's Flown Recreationally ( for fun) Who cares what your preference in craft is...

 

don't forget it's all about Flying Fun ... FUN... Pure and simple ..

 

 

[slb]

Lack of hangars and not many aviation friendly Councils seems to be a problem for some would be flyers. Keen to learn and buy their own aircraft, but then the reality of where to keep it and where to fly from comes in. Maybe we should be encouraging the Councils to see that pilots using their local airfields is a good thing? Most seem to put up too many obstacles to be able to put up an 'affordable' hangar easily.

 

 

[scre80]

I think the aircraft diversity is a good thing. Gives each individual person and there circumstances a chance at entering our sport knowing they can own there own craft if so desire. From a 3k "Rag and tube to a 100k composite 95:10. Aircraft are still here and will always be... As will the beautiful choice in composite aircraft ..... as long as it's Flown Recreationally ( for fun) Who cares what your preference in craft is... don't forget it's all about Flying Fun ... FUN... Pure and simple ..

Well said, could not agree more

 

 

[ave8rr]

so Vans RV4s and RV6/6As are in?

Unless there is a change to the max stall speed, then only the RV9/9A will fit at the proposed MTOW of 750kg.

The RV3 is already on the RAAus register. RV4 will have too higher stall speed at the MTOW of 1500kg?

 

 

[scre80]

Will do other thread soon :)

Hi Tim

Just saw this on the RA Aus Website

 

Great news for any females who are interested in learning to fly but don't know where to start:

 

During the entire month of March, any NEW female candidates who join RAAus as a flying member will receive flying lessons with their school to the value of their annual membership fee!

 

What's also exciting is that many of our schools are also jumping on board during the Women of Aviation Worldwide Week (7 - 13 March 2016) and will be planning events (and have their own special offers) to encourage more women to participate in our industry! We will advertise these soon, but in the meantime think free or heavily discounted Trial Introductory flights, competitions, speakers from all corners of the aviation industry and anything else our wonderful CFIs can whip up before March!

 

Now is the time to encourage the women in our community to get involved in aviation, spread the word, visit an event and support your local school.

 

For more information about these events, stay tuned or visit the ‪#‎WOAW16‬ website

 

‪#‎RAAus‬ ‪#‎Learntofly‬ ‪#‎Womeninaviation‬ ‪#‎Flyitforward‬

 

I take it you have seen this?

 

Cheers

 

 

[flyerme]

Lack of hangars and not many aviation friendly Councils seems to be a problem for some would be flyers. Keen to learn and buy their own aircraft, but then the reality of where to keep it and where to fly from comes in. Maybe we should be encouraging the Councils to see that pilots using their local airfields is a good thing? Most seem to put up too many obstacles to be able to put up an 'affordable' hangar easily.

My police friends flies a gazelle.. Lives in the suburbs and

Has no hangarage. Simply folds the wings up , puts on a trailer and keeps her in his carport..( still plenty aircraft you can fold up) As the saying goes " where ever there's will there's a way ;)

 

I bought property and house specifically to house my own aircraft and fly from . Cost less than most modern composite aircraft.. Each to there own and there is and will always be a way if you want It bad enough . Happy days

 

Hi TimJust saw this on the RA Aus Website

 

Great news for any females who are interested in learning to fly but don't know where to start:

 

During the entire month of March, any NEW female candidates who join RAAus as a flying member will receive flying lessons with their school to the value of their annual membership fee!

 

What's also exciting is that many of our schools are also jumping on board during the Women of Aviation Worldwide Week (7 - 13 March 2016) and will be planning events (and have their own special offers) to encourage more women to participate in our industry! We will advertise these soon, but in the meantime think free or heavily discounted Trial Introductory flights, competitions, speakers from all corners of the aviation industry and anything else our wonderful CFIs can whip up before March!

 

Now is the time to encourage the women in our community to get involved in aviation, spread the word, visit an event and support your local school.

 

For more information about these events, stay tuned or visit the ‪#‎WOAW16‬ website

 

‪#‎RAAus‬ ‪#‎Learntofly‬ ‪#‎Womeninaviation‬ ‪#‎Flyitforward‬

 

I take it you have seen this?

 

Cheers

yep. Seen but unfortunatly no one hardly takes notice? Hence were I come in .. RAA lacks in promoting to new blood... Infact most don't even know what RAA is! So I take it upon my self to promote to the masses ( that would never see such offers) NO. I don't get any reward other than to share my passion ( reward enough) ... I have personally enticed more than several new comers in the last year or two and that's very satisfying .. :) oh and I Run the biggest Australian Aviation Events page ;) along with several other Flying pages....

:)

 

 

[scre80]

yep. Seen but unfortunatly no one hardly takes notice? Hence were I come in .. RAA lacks in promoting to new blood... Infact most don't even know what RAA is! So I take it upon my self to promote to the masses ( that would never see such offers) NO. I don't get any reward other than to share my passion ( reward enough) ... I have personally enticed more than several new comers in the last year or two and that's very satisfying .. :) oh and I Run the biggest Australian Aviation Events page ;) along with several other Flying pages....

:)

Agree with you there. I only came across RAA by luck when I was looking to do a TIF and a few flying lessons out of parafield. When I found RAA, I got my pilots certificate within the same cost and very much enjoying it. I only wish I knew about RAA 10 years ago. I am following your events page now too (is that the SA one?)

So how can we get RAA to sell itself more to the young people and retain them? I think part of the answer is through clubs for retaining people. High Schools and social media is another way to get the message out.

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

Just found this thread, having temporarily relocated to Adelaide. As one of the retired Baby Boomers I can assure you that I don't intend to "pop my clogs", nor do I have the inclination to buy a "GA wannabe". What does concern me is that there will ALWAYS be the current pathway for those who choose to build and maintain their own aircraft, including engines other than Jab or Rot; that is the 19 category. Already (if I correctly interpret the constantly changing rules) it is now not possible for the purchaser of a pre-owned 19 aircraft to conduct their own maintenance, regardless of how much experience that they can demonstrate, including having perhaps having previously built 19 aircraft themselves. I totally agree that in order to maintain your own aircraft there must be some assessment and accreditation of skills, but this must also take on board the homebuilts.

 

As to getting young people on board - we are trying! During the past 10 years I have been teaching the engineering component of the Aviation Program at Mid North Christian College in Pt. Pirie, SA. This program also teaches all BAK, Nav, HF and Meteorology to Pilot Certificate level and also provides flight training through Spencer Gulf Flight Training. The program aims to provide a wide background knowledge of hands-on aviation rather than attempt to provide industry qualifications. Students gain accreditation in the SACE (Sth Aust Cert of Ed). Over the years many of our students have gained positions in RAAF , gone on to CPL, started their path to LAME or simply continued to fly recreationally. The continued success of this program suggests that it is a viable way to introduce school students to flying.

 

 

[flyerme]

Hmmm. Just took a look at a nice Blue RAA 19 reg RV9. At goolwa SA ...All where drooling over it and msking noise until I mentioned the numbers on the side. owner disappeared and all was very quite? Then apparently I upset someone by asking out loud " how did this thing go getting RAA Rego". Oops outca

 

Agree with you there. I only came across RAA by luck when I was looking to do a TIF and a few flying lessons out of parafield. When I found RAA, I got my pilots certificate within the same cost and very much enjoying it. I only wish I knew about RAA 10 years ago. I am following your events page now too (is that the SA one?)So how can we get RAA to sell itself more to the young people and retain them? I think part of the answer is through clubs for retaining people. High Schools and social media is another way to get the message out.

yes the sa page but also the bigger. " Australian Aviation Events"

Yeh Hitting The a high Schools would be the go with an inspirational speaker?... I'm working on getting my book into school library's and also really hope to inspire with my movie. No. I Dont make money from these( it actually costs me money ) lol. But I don't care.. I'm very passionate and just enjoy sharing our sport with all.......

 

 

[scre80]

Just found this thread, having temporarily relocated to Adelaide. As one of the retired Baby Boomers I can assure you that I don't intend to "pop my clogs", nor do I have the inclination to buy a "GA wannabe". What does concern me is that there will ALWAYS be the current pathway for those who choose to build and maintain their own aircraft, including engines other than Jab or Rot; that is the 19 category. Already (if I correctly interpret the constantly changing rules) it is now not possible for the purchaser of a pre-owned 19 aircraft to conduct their own maintenance, regardless of how much experience that they can demonstrate, including having perhaps having previously built 19 aircraft themselves. I totally agree that in order to maintain your own aircraft there must be some assessment and accreditation of skills, but this must also take on board the homebuilts.As to getting young people on board - we are trying! During the past 10 years I have been teaching the engineering component of the Aviation Program at Mid North Christian College in Pt. Pirie, SA. This program also teaches all BAK, Nav, HF and Meteorology to Pilot Certificate level and also provides flight training through Spencer Gulf Flight Training. The program aims to provide a wide background knowledge of hands-on aviation rather than attempt to provide industry qualifications. Students gain accreditation in the SACE (Sth Aust Cert of Ed). Over the years many of our students have gained positions in RAAF , gone on to CPL, started their path to LAME or simply continued to fly recreationally. The continued success of this program suggests that it is a viable way to introduce school students to flying.

Fantastic, would be great to see it in more schools

 

 

[scre80]

Hmmm. Just took a look at a nice Blue RAA 19 reg RV9. At goolwa SA ...All where drooling over it and msking noise until I mentioned the numbers on the side. owner disappeared and all was very quite? Then apparently I upset someone by asking out loud " how did this thing go getting RAA Rego". Oops outcayes the sa page but also the bigger. " Australian Aviation Events"

 

Yeh Hitting The a high Schools would be the go with an inspirational speaker?... I'm working on getting my book into school library's and also really hope to inspire with my movie. No. I Dont make money from these( it actually costs me money ) lol. But I don't care.. I'm very passionate and just enjoy sharing our sport with all.......

Just joined. Matt Hall would be a great speaker. Busy man though

 

 

[flyerme]

The other thing I see in the young is that they believe it to be for the rich or fir the daring.

 

This saddens me very much as neither is correct... Flying is safe- but unforgiving... And can be very Cheap... I started with a $2000 rag,n,tube Over the years have been fortunate to acquire a 30K+ lightwing and 35k+ ww-1 replica. But I also have another plane fully rebuilt, reg and flying cost of around 3 k. And am building a RAG'N'TUBE which should see final costs at around 4k .... Have had a plane donated for 0$$$ as it's currently unflyable and was sitting in barn. The old owner would just love to see it fly again :) I relay this to all whom will listen ... The future isn't all dark as some think .. It just promises more options for a wider community :).

 

There is also some exciting new plane projects that should fill some gaps in our industry. I think the future looks good for all.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

A couple of further thoughts:

 

1. I'm a firm believer that the name of an organisation is important. How would the average person on the street have any clue what RAA or RAAus or even the lengthy version was? A new name / logo would certainly help in promotion of the organisation.

 

2. Affordability - setting up a "syndicate kit" would make purchasing / maintaining an aircraft more achievable. Maybe RAA could seek input from syndicates as to what does / doesn't work in syndicates and put together a set of guidelines and written agreement members could use. It's not just the initial purchase cost, but the ongoing insurance, hangar etc which makes aircraft ownership difficult. Split it 5 ways and it's way more affordable and you have a bunch of like minded people to fly with.

 

 

[BlurE]

- setting up a "syndicate kit" would make purchasing / maintaining an aircraft more achievable. Maybe RAA could seek input from syndicates as to what does / does work

What a ripper idea. I have been thinking about syndicates lately, but just don't know where to start. It would be great to be able to access some sort of guide with suggestions of what is a fair split of fixed and variable costs as well as a list of "what ifs" for those scenarios you wouldn't necessarily think of up front but could sour the relationship. Maybe a framework agreement that could be customised as required but atleast providesa solid start.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I'm in full agreement with Roundsounds about the name of the RAAus. Juliet said "what's in a name" and history has shown that the answer, where business is concerned, is often "a lot of the difference between success and failure".

 

In my mind 'Recreational Aviation Australia' doesn't conjure up romantic ideas of building or buying your own private 'aerial sports-car' and flying off into the blue yonder. I've actually asked quite a few of the great un-washed what they thought the association was about and most thought it was probably a ballooning organisation, none had an idea it was the old AUF, and all of them knew what the AUF was.

 

I've also surveyed a few folk with a new name or two to test their reaction to it. Flying for Fun is one I favour but many thought it was a bit naff, though they did like Fun Flyer's Association and Sport Flyer's Association.

 

Another part of this is - do we want to be thought of as the Flyers or the Aircraft? The SAAA is/was very appropriate because when it was formed it was the Aussie version of the USA's Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) - it isn't the Experimental Flyer's Association, similarly the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA), is an Aircraft association rather than a pilot's or flyer's association, because the emphasis of each of those organisations is on the building of aircraft rather than the flying of them, since they both do the flying part under the auspices of their GA licencing regulators.

 

However, AUF/RAA has never been an aircraft association in the sense of a homebuilder's association. Certainly there is the facility for us to build our own planes within the organisational framework, but those of us who do so are in a very small minority, and decreasing. So I think being a Recreational/Sport/Fun Flyer's Association would be a more representative name as far as helping with the public's understanding is concerned ...

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[flyerme]

The AUF was founded by home builders who paved the way for all of us.

 

Most factory builds started life as a home build created in the mind of a dreamer and motivator in the early days..threw the 80's many home builds were being built and some went into manufacture...it was a very exciting time with ingenuity in abundance.

 

Even today a lot of non aircraft folk think we still ( ok I do) fly theses tiny home built contraptions....

 

They don't know that the likes of a jabiru is a " Ultralight" they can afford to fly!

 

Even my lightwing non flyers presume is a " real plane. 'GA ". I have family who would not dare fly in a thruster but happily jump in the lightwing? Go figure lol

 

I understand RAA name was meant to represent the diversity of aircraft but what got lost was the association of affordable safe flying.... That's the Key for membership growth I believe..

 

Flying for fun is a great modo but agree a bit " Naff"

 

I don't like the word " Sport" as it's not really a sport!

 

As far as "RAA". I too have to explain to new comers what it is but, as soon as I say "Ultralight Aircraft" They understand..

 

Ultralight Aircraft conjures up thoughts of cheap affordable flying but also of unsafe flimsy contraptions...

 

It's a tuff one but really needs to relay : affordability, Accessibility. Safe and most important FUN!!

 

Scratching head on this one! Good luck :)

 

All IMO