What do you predict will change in recreational flying in the next few years?

[slb]

There's no objective assessment, recognition or training path for maintainers, this will stop the heavier aircraft being accepted. CASA has been seeking this for many years, they will have zero interest in weight increases until RAAus can demonstrate a proper system of maintenance.

Isn't this what is coming?

 

RAAus have already announced that 2016 is THE YEAR OF THE MAINTAINER so hopefully they will be the ones to receive high vis vests this time around. Tech manual is due out soon we are told and the MARAP is already in progress, isn't it? Just the L1 and L2 training to go and we will then all know what we are supposed to be doing......

 

...............and the Strategic Plan clearly states that this all starts in January 2016 (so you should hear something within the next 3 days)

 

 

[scre80]

I am in the same boat. When I was in my 20s I first looked at getting a pilots licence but costs were prohibitive ($5000) for a GA licence at my age. Over the next 25 or so years I thought about if a few times but heard it was around $20000 to get a pilots licence now.I only found out about RAA by chance and had no idea about this side of things. I was surprised when I found I could get a pilots certificate for cheaper than I could 25 years ago. I have told a few of my friends about it and they all thought the same thing, to get a pilots licence (certificate) was only for the rich. Some of my friends have already done a TIF or first lessons 2 months after I found out about it.

How many other people out there in my demographic (mid 40s, good job, wife back to work, kids moving out, still got 20 years of work to go) could RAA target if they advertised and got the word out.

 

Getting some schools involved is a great idea. At their age, they likely wont stay in aviation unless they choose it as a career, but if they have a taste of it, then 20 years down the track they will be more likely to return.

 

What other ways can they get the word out to the target demographic? Maybe some newspaper or general interest magazine adds? A few more open, come and try days? A few thousand spent on marketing could give good returns in the future.

Totally agree, while I am not in my 40's yet and still have young kids, I was able to afford it and my kids love coming out when I am doing my practice circuits.

One issue is most airfields that fly RA Aus are not that close to the main cities. I am lucky in Adelaide to have Gawler only 30mins from my place. Other cities are not so lucky.

 

It would be good for RA Aus to have a program that schools can access to offer an aviation subject. Food for thought.

 

 

[RDavies]

Totally agree, while I am not in my 40's yet and still have young kids, I was able to afford it and my kids love coming out when I am doing my practice circuits.One issue is most airfields that fly RA Aus are not that close to the main cities. I am lucky in Adelaide to have Gawler only 30mins from my place. Other cities are not so lucky.

 

It would be good for RA Aus to have a program that schools can access to offer an aviation subject. Food for thought.

With the possible controlled airspace endorsements for RAA and higher weight limits allowing more choice of planes, hopefully it might increase the amount of RAA clubs and training schools around the country, especially closer to the main population areas.

 

 

[scre80]

With the possible controlled airspace endorsements for RAA and higher weight limits allowing more choice of planes, hopefully it might increase the amount of RAA clubs and training schools around the country, especially closer to the main population areas.

Totally agree, as long as the cost can be kept down to make it as affordable as possible. Club training schools like where I learnt was a great way and also gives you an opportunity to get in contact and be involved beyond gaining your Pilots Certificate.

 

 

[diesel]

Landing fees and restrictions will make you go bush. Anything smaller than a B737 is a nusiance. Chas

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You have to look at the history of the RAA and CASA in managing the recreational aviation industry to understand its future. Without some sort of dramatic change from them, you wont see any beneficial change in the industry. To have a 10% decline in your membership over a 5 year period during a time when MTOW and Maximum altitude where both increased indicates that increasing MTOW or some other artificial restriction won't make much difference to the decline.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Put me down for one of those cheap high-end aircraft in 5 years time.

Done. What colour?

 

Young people are facing a few major issues, expensive cost of living in urban areas, declining career opportunities in rural and regional areas, reduced earning potential and a bevy of alternative recreational options.

Of the posts I see this as the biggest issue, the economic decline of country areas forcing a lot of young people into the big smoke.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That's just a continuing cycle through the generations for country people; I was one of them, and I never returned.

 

As a teenager, I saved pocket money to go up for flights from the local airstrip.

 

When I moved to Melbourne, I budgeted for one flying lesson per week and finally got a PPL.

 

I think if the costs are matched to CPI, today's hourly rate will be about the same cost in terms of earning capacity.

 

In those days the average person couldn't afford to own their own aircraft, so if anything, these days we are ahead.

 

 

[flyerme]

Totally agree, while I am not in my 40's yet and still have young kids, I was able to afford it and my kids love coming out when I am doing my practice circuits.One issue is most airfields that fly RA Aus are not that close to the main cities. I am lucky in Adelaide to have Gawler only 30mins from my place. Other cities are not so lucky.

 

It would be good for RA Aus to have a program that schools can access to offer an aviation subject. Food for thought.

Theres couple of new initiatives to lure new young pilots going on right now. On FB!!! I personally am organising a "Fly it forward". Free flights for young/and older woman to coincide with" Woman of Aviation week". Have organised 15 flights. In a Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne so far... also working on a Movie to Inspire the next generation would be pilots...

 

 

[scre80]

Theres couple of new initiatives to lure new young pilots going on right now. On FB!!! I personally am organising a "Fly it forward". Free flights for young/and older woman to coincide with" Woman of Aviation week". Have organised 15 flights. In a Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne so far... also working on a Movie to Inspire the next generation would be pilots...

Fantastic!! Please share the details, and what help you need. I am sure some people on this forum can help, including me!!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Theres couple of new initiatives to lure new young pilots going on right now. On FB!!! I personally am organising a "Fly it forward". Free flights for young/and older woman to coincide with" Woman of Aviation week". Have organised 15 flights. In a Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne so far... also working on a Movie to Inspire the next generation would be pilots...

Your a real gem Tim, do a lot for the sport, hope to drop in again early this year.

 

 

[Fishla]

Done. What colour?

Whatever is cheapest.

 

 

[robinsm]

I can see the resurgence of original ultralights by those who are unable to afford the plastic wanna be fantastics pseudo GA aircraft. This may not happen immediately but the pendulum is swinging. Over regulation is turning people away from this sport and it is rapidly becoming a rich mans sport again. The original movement started because the average man wanted to fly and did not have the wherewithall to buy the more expensive aircraft at the time. I think the base movement will take off when it gets its own organisation, or branch of the current organisation that will recognise the original aims of the movement.

 

 

[Nightmare]

I never knew about recreation aviation til around a year ago. Once I learnt about it and how much cheaper than GA, I signed up right away. I wish I knew this 15 years ago!! It was only when I went looking I found out about it.

I too only found out how affordable aviation through RAA was about a year ago. I know that I can purchase a plane with the training and qualifications for about the same as a lot of people spend on their motorsport, that in the past was unthinkable. In the 112 years since the birth of aviation, people's fascination with taking to the skies only gets stronger with each generation, so I don't see a decrease in interest, rather an increase with fantastic new innovations on the way, such as the electric powered aircraft mentioned earlier..... Great times to be a pilot, I say

[Happyflyer]

A revolution in battery/solar panel technology and electric motors will create a boom in the light weight end of the recreational market (hopefully!).

 

 

[bexrbetter]

FWIW, I noticed the HBA Forum recently had it's highest number of people visit there in Nov 2015.

 

Started in 2003.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

A revolution in battery/solar panel technology and electric motors will create a boom in the light weight end of the recreational market (hopefully!).

Can't see it making it cheaper and that's about all that's going to make things better.

 

Whatever is cheapest.

Good to see a wise, money savvy charismatic member of the forum who I bet is a real wheeler and dealer and into stockmarkets.

 

... or you're from Tasmania.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

If the RAAus fails to provide a pathway for owner-maintenance then the costs will go way up. And there are vested interests out there who would like to see maintenance done only by professionals. Alas there are a few idiots who do dumb things to their planes and supply ammunition to those who want to ban owners from maintenance.

 

It would be possible to have a system using club-based volunteers, I hope they think of this as an alternative to bans and restrictions.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And there are vested interests out there who would like to see maintenance done only by professionals. Alas there are a few idiots who do dumb things to their planes and supply ammunition to those who want to ban owners from maintenance.

One follows the other doesn't it, when that turns into fatality statistics.

 

It would be possible to have a system using club-based volunteers, I hope they think of this as an alternative to bans and restrictions.

A very good idea; I've mentioned speedway machine examiners several times without much interest shown, but the Club/Association Machine Examiner checks each and every competing car at every race meeting - so about 12 independent checks per year on roughly the same number of units as RA.

All are volunteers; there's no cost to the members.

 

The biggest benefit of this is that it provides a second pair of eyes which usually pick up the little oversights we make when building/assembling our own machines, and that can be life saving in an aircraft.

 

All it needs is for RAA to set up the volunteer structure.

 

 

[Fishla]

Good to see a wise, money savvy charismatic member of the forum who I bet is a real wheeler and dealer and into stockmarkets.

... or you're from Tasmania.

Nah, just one of those who isn't over the age of 40.

 

Aviation seems to be the only sport where one wishes they were older. So they can afford it!

 

I've got my eyes set on one of those panthera's when I cash out my superannuation in 10,585 days and counting...

 

Hopefully the age pension will pay for the fuel.

 

(OK, maybe a J230 will suffice).

 

 

[pmccarthy]

One thing that will not change is fellow pilots who use expressions like "plastic wannabe fantastic pseudo GA aircraft". It is offensive to many and divides what should be a unified voice speaking up for our sport. Strangely, I don't read any disparaging comments going the other way, about simple and cheap ultralights. Maybe it is the old Aussie politics of envy?

 

 

[kasper]

One thing that will not change is fellow pilots who use expressions like "plastic wannabe fantastic pseudo GA aircraft". It is offensive to many and divides what should be a unified voice speaking up for our sport. Strangely, I don't read any disparaging comments going the other way, about simple and cheap ultralights. Maybe it is the old Aussie politics of envy?

It would be a unified voice (and I might stop thinking of them as wanna-be GA) IF they did not appear hell bent on importing ALL the processes and control around GA aircraft and ops ... and before you blast away at me people on here talking about RAAus aircraft are

1. openly saying nil radio ops are dangerous and dumb and

 

2. that 50 knts in the circuit makes you a hazard to other operators.

 

Both are integral parts of minimal operation of recreational flight at the lower end of the performance spectrum. You don't have to tell me that me in a Lazair is not really viable to operate into or out of Bankstown - I KNOW that already BUT operating from a non control airfield without radio with extremely low performance can be done and should be both allowed and encouraged NOT squashed into extinction under rules and operating requirements that make it functionally impossible.

 

I dread that the very old line of being allowed to fly a plane only when the paperwork equals the aircraft mass may start being evidenced in RAAus aircraft ... and lets face it - thats what killed off GA and created the push for high end RAAus in the first place.

 

I'll go with the line - those who fail to learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them ... RAAus is looking like GA rec from about 1970 at the moment ...

 

 

[turboplanner]

1. openly saying nil radio ops are dangerous and dumb and

2. that 50 knts in the circuit makes you a hazard to other operators.

Under the present regulations, I agree with 1.

 

However, you have your own circuit height, so your 50 kts cruise does not interfere with other aircraft on climb out, crosswind, or downwind, and if I can't space a Cherokee behind you for final, having heard your radio calls (you will be below me, in a different circuit width and hard to see), I'd need to give the game away. I would be on 1 stage of flap and 90 kts on downwind, extending the downwind leg, hanging on the prop on base, and at 60 kts on final, so plenty of options to fit in with you, so I wouldn't agree with 2.

 

Perhaps there is an opportunity for grass roots flying below 500 feet say, and away from other traffic, to be made exempt from radio?

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Perhaps there is an opportunity for grass roots flying below 500 feet say, and away from other traffic, to be made exempt from radio?

Whoa - just you hang on a cotton-pickin' minute here - what's this 'exempt from radio' claptrap? There's no radio requirement at present so how can you say there needs to be an exemption from something that's not required anyway?

 

And - while you're at your 'below 500ft' thing, why not make it only for planes of 115kg empty weight, max wing loading 4lbs/sqft, mustn't cross roads, no flight above 500ft ... nah, we've done that - before the plastic wannabe fantastic pseudo GA aircraft mob came along and usurped our playground.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND - I'm sure a lot of folk wouldn't mind going back to 95.10 Issue 1 if it properly emulated the Pt103 in USA which has some of the above and no requirement for a pilot certificate or membership of an association like RAAus. These days you could build a much better plane than we could in the late 70s/early 80s with better availability of superior materials and engines, AND kits are allowed, which they aren't here, unless they're 'approved' by RAAus, and guess how many kits have been approved in the last 25 years ...

 

 

[turboplanner]

All of that HITC