JABIRU 2016 UPDATE

[Oscar]

I really wouldn't want half a dozen people killed, just so you could see the legal wheels in motion.

Bully for you.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I really wouldn't want half a dozen people killed, just so you could see the legal wheels in motion.

Do I take it then that since the engines where "half a dozen people" or more in fact have been killed are lycomings , continentals, rotax, almost every brand of turbine available you are going to lobby CASA to treat them more harshly than jabiru?

 

 

[frank marriott]

I really wouldn't want half a dozen people killed, just so you could see the legal wheels in motion.[/quote

12 fatalities in 2015 don't count lets stick it up the Jab owners some more ??????? Give it a break!!!!!!

[Oscar]

Hey, people, let's respect the idiots savant amongst our population. Turbs has at least achieved the first half of that description, and may, in time, climb above the bar.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Oscar when you start calling people idiots, your credibility or otherwise is there for all to see.

 

 

[jetjr]

Nearly spat put my beer, TP talking to others on creditability

 

 

[turboplanner]

What exactly are you trying to say Frank?

 

This thread was started as a good news story about the work Jabiru has been doing and how some engines are going back into service after 1000 hours, but has been dominated by a few peoples hate of CASA.

 

12 fatalities in 12 months should be front of mind within RAA, and any trends should be addressed.

 

If you are aware of any trends there's nothing to stop you contacting RAA or CASA depending on where the trends are.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nearly spat put my beer, TP talking to others on creditability

It's credibility.

 

 

[Oscar]

12 fatalities in 12 months should be front of mind within RAA, and any trends should be addressed.

So: how many of those were a result of Jabiru engine failure, Turbs? Neatest correct entry wins.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Do I take it then that since the engines where "half a dozen people" or more in fact have been killed are lycomings , continentals, rotax, almost every brand of turbine available you are going to lobby CASA to treat them more harshly than jabiru?

I haven't lobbied CASA to do anything, and you're one of a few people who seems to be confused at the difference between a string of specific mechanical issues, and a string of fuel exhaustion, or CFIT which are not engine related, but I certainly expect any trend to be investigated.

 

 

[turboplanner]

So: how many of those were a result of Jabiru engine failure, Turbs? Neatest correct entry wins.

Please see my comments above to Jab.

 

 

[2tonne]

I think TP meant to say zero.

 

 

[Oscar]

Not good enough, Turbs. Numbers are required. You have staked your 'expertise' on your number-crunching.... at the moment, you are looking as flakey as a US Republican Presidential candidate. C'mon, tote out those numbers, flatten us all with your dazzling science.

 

 

[Oscar]

I think TP meant to say zero.

I suspect that is a four-letter word for TP where Jabiru is concerned. CASA is a four-letter word for the rest of us..

 

 

[jetjr]

I would expect them to investigte a trend too........they didnt.

 

The OP was a letter from Jabiru regarding ongoing limitations, what we are discussing

 

 

[facthunter]

It's NOT a hate of the CASA to criticise what they do when it's so wide of reality and point out they have done crook things in the past where people were treated unfairly, also. Hate doesn't come into it at all. Some of the people who work there have been and are friends of mine. Nev

 

 

[frank marriott]

What exactly are you trying to say Frank?This thread was started as a good news story about the work Jabiru has been doing and how some engines are going back into service after 1000 hours, but has been dominated by a few peoples hate of CASA.

12 fatalities in 12 months should be front of mind within RAA, and any trends should be addressed.

 

If you are aware of any trends there's nothing to stop you contacting RAA or CASA depending on where the trends are.

Proof that one shouldn't open posts from people on your ignor list.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That's right, you get caught out don't you.

 

 

[facthunter]

Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction got him back. Ignore list is stupid. If you don't read what is posted by your "adversary", you achieve the same result. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

This matter is complicated by the situation that the CASA action is a response, because RAA, the self administrator didn't act when it became aware of issues.I'd be very careful about jumping to conclusions about who was negligent.

Either there is a presumption that there was an "issue" to be resolved or a desire on the part of CASA to cause some pain (in response to shrill grandstanding by a few)

 

 

[turboplanner]

Either there is a presumption that there was an "issue" to be resolved

There are the RAA records which would show this either way.

 

or a desire on the part of CASA to cause some pain

Or they were asked to act, and some of the louder voices in these discussions are likely to become instant lepers.

This is something members of RAA might like to sort out, and you've been wanting to be a board member for a long time Col, so maybe this is a job for you.

 

(in response to shrill grandstanding by a few)

One of the two people who were accused of having "an axe to grind" can be clearly identified from at least one of the reports in the list of "46 engine failures" (which we know were not all relevant engine failures), so we know that he submitted a standard report as he would be expected to do, and the report looked to be based on reasonable mechanical grounds to me - it's status is simply a report covering several events, and would not in itself be expected to trigger major action.

It is clearly shown that his report was submitted to RAA and RAA submitted it to CASA.

 

I couldn't identify the other person from reports.

 

CASA could never substantiate a defence if it actted on shrill grandstanding.

 

As I mentioned earlier, once you trigger an FoI it has the same status as the documents sought and is on the public domain. The link has been corrected to de-identify the person't identity inadvertently shown previously and is back up on the CASA website on this link: https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/disclosure-log

 

 

[frank marriott]

Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction got him back. Ignore list is stupid. If you don't read what is posted by your "adversary", you achieve the same result. Nev

Not when what is written is of no value, and in a manner obviously designed to inflame rather then discuss in a rational informed manner. Your choise it's free world (at least in what one chooses to tolerate).

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not when what is written is of no value, and in a manner obviously designed to inflame rather then discuss in a rational informed manner. Your choise it's free world (at least in what one chooses to tolerate).

I agree.

 

“Don't start him again. Alan (& a couple of his followers) went on and on about rubbish when this all started and will continue with the same stuff again if encouraged.”: Frank Marriott #16

 

 

 

“And the persistent dribble starts again”: Frank Marriott #63

 

 

 

“I don't see what is to be gained by a pissing contest by some here. I reminds me of primary school children debating Holden V Ford back in the 70s - although some still carry on with that to the present time.” : Frank Marriott #101

 

 

 

”I know where a sensible analysis would point to the problem. But that will not stop the continued pushing from those who have their own agenda, whatever that might be.”: Frank Marriott #129

 

 

 

“Same old s......t”: Frank Marriott #136

 

 

 

“Therein lies the problem, no need for this division, fly and compare aircraft properties without being stupid about it - but we know that is not achieveable with certain personalities”: Frank Marriott #194

 

 

 

“Proof that one shouldn't open posts from people on your ignor list.” : Frank Marriott #267

 

 

[Oscar]

WOW - Fabulous stuff!

 

Both ears AND the tail awarded to Mr. Marriott, by crowd acclamation.

 

 

[turboplanner]

For those interested in the different processes of the post-prescriptive area, from about the mid 1980’s there’s an issue going on in Melbourne right now which is almost a textbook case.

 

Salmonella is reportable to Victoria’s Department of Health and Human Services by the medical profession.

 

[similar to accidents and incident reporting to RAA and from RAA to CASA – a hands off auditing process vs the prescriptive quarterly visit from the Government Inspector. In this way liability doesn’t fall back on an inspector’s opinion or mistake]

 

Normally there are only a handful of cases but the Department noticed a sharp spike on February 2.

 

[Note that it was just a trend which triggered the alert, not a specific number of cases, just looked at the surge]

 

This was traced to lettuces and salads sold by Coles and Woolworths, and supplied by Tripod Farms.

 

Coles and Woolworths had issued an urgent recall by February 4

 

[The recall was instigated by the people involved in marketing the product – they didn’t wait around to be ordered to do something]

 

Customers were asked to return any stock for a refund, and the stock in the pipeline from the farm was removed.

 

Tripod Farms did an immediate test and clean up of the property, and suspended its farming and processing operations during the testing.

 

As of February 8 Tripod were still waiting for test results.

 

[Note that the Government is not doing the testing and analysis (where its methods and conclusions could later be disputed in Court), the supplier is.

 

On this forum, a couple of people have kept repeating that CASA should have tested the components and found causes, not just symptoms, and this case shows that is no longer the practice today.]

 

 

Link to the DHHS statistics

 

http://www.health.vic.gov.au/ideas/downloads/daily_reports/rptVS_SNIDSVictorianSalmonellosisSummary_GR.pdf