JABIRU 2016 UPDATE

[Oscar]

AND THAT"S WHEN THE FIGHT STARTED:

 

 

Senate Estimates Committee, two days ago. Essential you watch the whole thing; low-key at this hearing but the clear and present threat of a full Senate Inquiry if CASA don't come up with much better than they have done so far.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Very interesting. And ver well put by the Senator.

 

 

[jetjr]

Good stuff, agree well done Senator.

 

Some factual stretches there from Mr Aleck - mixing up the improvements with what was wrong

 

Ignores entire issue that even certificated and experimental engines have been limited too.

 

Also interesting they have seen 900 hr improved engine torn down,

 

 

[turboplanner]

AND THAT"S WHEN THE FIGHT STARTED:

 

Not quite a fight, but a good hurry along.

 

Mark Skidmore and Jonathan Aleck were going from memory answering the questions, and in this format that will be cleaned up, and also the Senators are not expected to be experts either in a Committee Hearing.

 

Note that Jonathan Aleck has confirmed the responsibilities process that I pointed out, in terms of who is responsible for diagnosing and fixing the engines.

 

As much as Senator O'Brien wants to hurry it along, and no one would disagree with him, I'd love to be a fly on the wall at his "audience" when some of the impediments come out.

 

 

[Ron5335]

A great example of why we need a senate !!!!

 

 

[jetjr]

Skidmore may have answered a few things off script, indicating non engine failures incidents would have been removed from data.....yet they remain in numbers presented.

 

Now theres a standard for acceptable engine failure being 1:10000 ......was it hrs?? Very high bar (wouldnt that be for certificated engines though??).

 

What else is in for limitations?

 

As Per ATSB report, 2013 Rotax running 2.7:10000, Jabiru just over 3.2:10000

 

AND weight shift and trikes not included so only few 2 stroke in there id guess.

 

Hardly 3x the others

 

 

[turboplanner]

Three or four Senators got the GP fee debacle cleaned up in a couple of days from what would have been a trauma for just about every family.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Skidmore may have answered a few things off script, indicating non engine failures incidents would have been removed from data.....yet they remain in numbers presented.Now theres a standard for acceptable engine failure being 1:10000 ......was it hrs?? Very high bar.

What else is in for limitations?

Well the non failures accusations have been cleared up (or Aleck will have his ears cut off), and I didn't hear any numbers mentioned, just "two or three times similar engines" and that's heap lower than I expected.

I think it was hours, but replay the recording.

 

 

[Ron5335]

Firstly they admitted they imposed the restrictions without identifying the fault.

 

Then a big game changer cam with that they pulled down a modified engine with 900hrs on it to find no problems with it, (When the industry standard is only 200hrs, yet they did nothing, or planned to do nothing with the findings into the restrictions they imposed.

 

No wonder the Senator seemed less than impressed

 

 

[Oscar]

It's Senator O'Sullivan.... I happen to know that Sentaor Heffernan was being expensively briefed re CASA's activities during the Forsyth Review, and while I do not personally like him, he is considerably worse than a Pit-Bull with a toothache when he gets started. If you watch his body language in particular, he was sizing up CASA for a damn good kicking by the Senate (again).

 

I was on my Departmental 'team' for a number of Senate Estimates hearings in the Bronwyn Bishop days (and don't get me started on how thick she is), and absolutely NO Department or agency takes Senate Estimates hearings lightly. The Senate can take your balls and poke them out your nostrils if they so decide.

 

 

[jetjr]

"The Senate can take your balls and poke them out your nostrils if they so decide."

 

hope thats recorded when it happens

 

 

[kgwilson]

Political BS answers to straight forward questions. I'm pretty sure Barry O'Sullivan has all the correct data (from his sources) & CASA will have to concede that the 46 failures are only 12 along with many other things. Jabiru have been putting on a brave face but O'Sullivans comments would be pretty accurate as many others have said that they are close to failure entirely due to the poorly actioned instrument based on inconclusive & sometimes dodgy data.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, they can, same as the State Upper Houses, can command you to appear before them, require you to give evidence on oath, and I think lock you up, in the nicest possible way.

 

 

[turboplanner]

concede that the 46 failures are only 12

They cleared that up there and then, you'll hear it on the video.

 

 

[jetjr]

Didnt hear that, actually thought it showed Skidmore was NOT aware of the issues otherwise would have said much less.

 

Maybe advisors in Rec Av division not passing on pissed off emails or the details.

 

Could this be the hanging out of a DAS? Hes ruffled a few panic rooms there I believe.

 

 

[kgwilson]

They cleared that up there and then, you'll hear it on the video.

Skidmore responded "They would've been excluded" not WERE excluded when responding to O'Sullivan but they weren't according to what they published to back up their actions.

I expect it will come out subsequently but the statement of "A high and increasing number of failures" has turned out to be wrong as per what CASA is saying is their source of much of the data, ATSB. ATSBs data shows the opposite, that there is a reducing rate for Jabiru and in increasing rate for Rotax.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Skidmore may have answered a few things off script, indicating non engine failures incidents would have been removed from data.....yet they remain in numbers presented.Now theres a standard for acceptable engine failure being 1:10000 ......was it hrs?? Very high bar (wouldnt that be for certificated engines though??).

What else is in for limitations?

 

As Per ATSB report, 2013 Rotax running 2.7:10000, Jabiru just over 3.2:10000

 

AND weight shift and trikes not included so only few 2 stroke in there id guess.

 

Hardly 3x the others

"1:10,000" They said a working baseline was the NSTB standard, mentioned 1 in 10,000 "occurrences" but never cleared up whether that was hours, flights etc., just finalised it as 2 to 3 times an engine with similar "power/capacity"

 

I don't think you can take too much home from what was said there - it will be clarified in another meeting I'd say.

 

Just be aware that Senator O'Sullivan, in relation to the risk over populous areas said "Aught that concern be, they wouldn't operate". When the "audience" takes place behind closed doors and each says what they think, there will be a better understanding of what the risk is, AND what the Federal Governments exposure is to that risk.

 

 

[DrZoos]

wow great find...... those clowns where evasive , tried to cover their ineptitude and made O'sullivan look like a fool for listening patiently for so long

 

I think in the end he could see they were absolutely spinning complete BS... I would think his threat at the end was a very serious one...

 

Now you guys need to poke him with a stick, keep the fire alive, congratulate him, but also infuriate him with the facts that they should have known and chose to hole back or cover up...

 

 

[jetjr]

 

ATSB data for years up to 2013

 

 

[Oscar]

Everybody - and seriously - email O'Sullivan, congratulate hiom for opening this au to proper inspection. THIS IS IMPORTANT! - not just for Jabiru but to forestall CASA expanding this kind of BS throughout the Rec Av scenario.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Contact_Senator_or_Member?MPID=247871

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Your message has been forwarded to the Senator/Member.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

[Oscar]

It doesn't matter that you get an automated response: the Senator's staff see the numbers coming in and that will tickle them to tell him it's a hot button issue.

 

 

[turboplanner]

[quote="

 

ATSB data for years up to 2013

Based on which registrations?

 

 

[Camel]

Oscar and those interested in making a difference ! Those others please ignor this as you are more problems !

 

I have actively protested to Casa as to the action taken with Jabiru ! The letters I have will be used to prove their lies and some of you have seen these ! but this is not what drives me it is what already happened to other manufacturers and believe me this is serious ! The Casa SASAO team have been trying to destroy sport aviation for some time in this country. If you know what I'm talking about write to the industry complaints commissioner as I think times are changing.

 

Mark Skidmore and Warren Truss thought not answering and ignoring everyone would solve everything, ! real Genius's !

 

He is interested, don't know what results but then again no action supports the anti Casa case !

 

Please also write as Oscar has recommended as this has to be fought on all fronts as it is survival of sport aviation and our freedoms to fly as RAA pilots.

 

Jonathan Hanton

 

Industry Complaints Commissioner

 

Civil Aviation Safety Authority

 

Aviation House | 16 Furzer Street | Phillip | ACT 2606

 

T +61 2 6217 1249| E [email protected]

 

 

[jetjr]

Based on which registrations?

Read the report, its been mentioned several hundred times and number bluntly contradict CASA claim.

It includes LSA under VH and RAA, 19 and 24 i believe