JABIRU 2016 UPDATE

[jetjr]

Yep done

 

Did Bill H too

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Done

Yep done as well.

 

 

[facthunter]

Sent a fairly long comment. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Everybody: bloody marvelous responses! FWIW, a considerable amount of 'backroom' work has been done in the last 6 or so months - particularly since the 'data' spreadsheet saw the light of day - and O'Sullivan has obviously been well briefed on at least quite a bit of that. He WILL receive more information, that I guarantee, and all of the comments he has received in support of his turning over of the rock in Senate Estimates will reinforce his intention to pursue the matter, I will bet London to a Brick.

 

This has all the potential to be a watershed event in the CASA 'overlordship' of Recreational Aviation. CASA (or its forebears) has for ever exercised a 'droit de signeur' relationship to Recreational and Sport aviation: effectively reserving the right to come in and f#$k it whenever it pleased CASA - and exercising that right whenever it pleased CASA (or its forebears).

 

If you think I am joking: go read the HORSCOTS 1978 report on Sports Aviation Safety. Specifically, para. 174, relating to the weight limitations on 95.10 aircraft:

 

The Department of Aviation believes that the 115 kg weight limit is adequate to build safe ultralight aircraft and that the weight limit should be kept low to reduce damage on impact with property.

 

Do I need to amplify further? This is NOT 'advancing aviation safety', it is 'covering the Departmental ar$e if something goes wrong'.

 

 

 

And, since 1978 at least -Recreational and Sport aviation in all its forms has NOT caused injury - let alone death - to 'innocent bystanders'. The operational limitations applicable to all Recreational and Sports aviation operation has been, I contend, a significant part of that. The 'populous area' mantra regurgitated by the CASA respondents in the Senate Estimates hearing is absolutely negated by the statistics for the last 47 years of Recreational and Sports Aviation operations.

 

 

 

Hell, I seem to remember that even a mobility scooter has been responsible for the death of 'an innocent bystander'. You have more likelihood of being killed by a shark attack: not fanciful, FACT.

 

 

 

[Ron5335]

Oscar:

 

Watershed moment it is, I also see it as, Do or Die for Recreational Aviation as it exists today.

 

In the real world of aviation, the pilots are hobbled by their reliance on their employer, and it's not in the interests of airlines and commercial operators to go out of their way to upset the safety administrator.

 

On the other hand, the Recreational & Sport flyers are not too backward in coming forward and are made up of consortium of everyone from butchers to lawyers and retirees with too much time on their hands.

 

So now that push has turned to shove, What's next ?

 

A) Cut the rabble loose, and make it 100% self regulating, and protect itself from future litigation by lifting the bans, and sit back and say "I Told you so". and continue their rein over the industry.

 

or

 

B) Bring out a bigger stick, and beat it into submission by firstly closing down the major local supplier of economical engines/aircraft, as the $Au dollar is going South and that will automatically limit imports from over seas. But option B is slower and brings in a lot of flack.

 

 

[biggles]

[quote="jetjr, post: 545939

 

Did Bill H too

 

Me likewise ... Bob

 

 

[Russ]

i'm in too........

 

 

[JEM]

Oscar said: ↑

 

Everybody - and seriously - email O'Sullivan, congratulate him for opening this up to proper inspection. THIS IS IMPORTANT! - not just for Jabiru but to forestall CASA expanding this kind of BS throughout the Rec Av scenario.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Contact_Senator_or_Member?MPID=247871

 

Done

 

 

[gandalph]

Oscar said: ↑

 

Everybody - and seriously - email O'Sullivan, congratulate him for opening this up to proper inspection.

 

Done.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Done............also contacted Member for Mallee, Andrew Broad re. ASIC and access to regional airports.

 

 

[turboplanner]

May take home after a couple of days thinking out the Senate video, is that the urgency is going to be on finalising what trigger will be required to get affected Jabiru engines back to normal operations asap.

 

I agree with Oscar, that the gesture by Senator O'Sullivan conveyed a clear message to get on with it, and fast.

 

The fallout though, could explode in any direction.

 

 

[Ron5335]

Rather than relying on the members to show an interest to the senators, (I did to both) it would be a good time for RAA to poke it's head up and state, how many members it has, the value of the fleet, the number of flying schools, and the general turnover $'s for Aust. and the crippling effect the restrictions have introduced.

 

 

[mlpinaus]

Oscar said: ↑

Everybody - and seriously - email O'Sullivan, congratulate him for opening this up to proper inspection. THIS IS IMPORTANT! - not just for Jabiru but to forestall CASA expanding this kind of BS throughout the Rec Av scenario.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Contact_Senator_or_Member?MPID=247871

 

Done

Done

Marcus

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yes RAAus is deafening in its silence at this time.

 

A government department should be working to the utmost to ASSIST Australian enterprises, not using its great powers to bully and ruin and turn people to imports.

 

And they should be honest and technically competent.

 

I'm really angry.Is there anyone on this forum who is on the RAAus board? Maybe he could tell us whats going on.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Im sure RAA are lobbying hard...its not in their interests to be publicly slanging CASA, as we know CASA likes to club baby seals to death with a big stick. Im sure they are working behind the scenes on this and thinking along the same lines as us.

 

Sent messages to several

 

 

[kgwilson]

Everybody - and seriously - email O'Sullivan, congratulate hiom for opening this au to proper inspection. THIS IS IMPORTANT! - not just for Jabiru but to forestall CASA expanding this kind of BS throughout the Rec Av scenario.https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Contact_Senator_or_Member?MPID=247871

Done

 

 

[Guest asmol]

Heard today at the airport from an ex board member who still lurks around on the fringes that the ATSB reports into Jabiru and Jabiru powered aircraft will be out within 2 weeks time.

 

When i asked what it meant and what was in the report he wouldn't answer, just said its bad news for a lot of people.

 

Now, don't shoot me down for reporting this, just keep a lookout for the report when released and go from there.

 

Hopefully this will explain all the numbers and detailed events to satisfy both sides of the argument and REMOVE any bias and mystery from these reported numbers and events.

 

 

[coljones]

Heard today at the airport from an ex board member who still lurks around on the fringes that the ATSB reports into Jabiru and Jabiru powered aircraft will be out within 2 weeks time. When i asked what it meant and what was in the report he wouldn't answer, just said its bad news for a lot of people.

 

Now, don't shoot me down for reporting this, just keep a lookout for the report when released and go from there.

 

Hopefully this will explain all the numbers and detailed events to satisfy both sides of the argument and REMOVE any bias and mystery from these reported numbers and events.

"still lurks around on the fringes"? Is this code for a man in a raincoat?

 

 

[johnm]

................... 'fridges' - hes always smashed at the bar

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

In my 47 years at Gawler, I have seen just one serious crash and it was due to the engine failure of a volkswagen type on its first flight. We have been operating several Jabirus for about ten years and they are reliable and effective little planes.

 

So the ATSB stuff will have to be very good to impress me.

 

And why the wait? Another example of arrogance? I guess those bureaucrats have no idea about how business need to have cash flow to work. Many of the bureaucrats are so used to having unlimited time and money that they just don't understand. This is certainly my observation about ex-airforce people.

 

 

[biggles]

Heard today at the airport from an ex board member who still lurks around on the fringes that the ATSB reports into Jabiru and Jabiru powered aircraft will be out within 2 weeks time. When i asked what it meant and what was in the report he wouldn't answer, just said its bad news for a lot of people.

 

Now, don't shoot me down for reporting this, just keep a lookout for the report when released and go from there.

 

Hopefully this will explain all the numbers and detailed events to satisfy both sides of the argument and REMOVE any bias and mystery from these reported numbers and events.

Not sure about the ATSB , maybe he means CASA !! .... Bob

 

 

[Camel]

ATSB have an ongoing investigation and will be released soon as it was due a while ago ! I think they said release end of 2015.

 

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ar-2013-107.aspx

 

 

[Russ]

Prepare for the worst........the whole saga was flawed, from the beginning. The "spin doctors" may pull a rabbit out of their hat here. They have to, it's that serious to them.

 

( getting "exposed" is their worst nightmare, come true )

 

 

[turboplanner]

In my 47 years at Gawler, I have seen just one serious crash and it was due to the engine failure of a volkswagen type on its first flight. We have been operating several Jabirus for about ten years and they are reliable and effective little planes.So the ATSB stuff will have to be very good to impress me.

And why the wait? Another example of arrogance? I guess those bureaucrats have no idea about how business need to have cash flow to work. Many of the bureaucrats are so used to having unlimited time and money that they just don't understand. This is certainly my observation about ex-airforce people.

You've touched on an important point here Bruce, and I've meant to make a point about it earlier.

In most clean cut self regulation/self liability where an industry as at arms length from the government, the time taken from when the self administrator discovers a risk to the time taken for exclusion of that risk is up to the self administrator/company/etc.

 

Two of the disadvantages when the government has a little experiment with part prescription/part self administration are:

 

1. The liability for their decisions is usually theirs - so, once again they stand to pay out money if they are negligent.

 

2. Any unreasonable delays in identifying a non compliance to a prescribed rule, and any unreasonable delays in declaring the non-compliance over, may involve them in pay out costs.

 

That's not legal advice, and nor is anything else I say on this forum, just something I think hasn't really been looked at by governments and the bodies they set up.

 

 

[2tonne]

Heard today at the airport from an ex board member who still lurks around on the fringes that the ATSB reports into Jabiru and Jabiru powered aircraft will be out within 2 weeks time. When i asked what it meant and what was in the report he wouldn't answer, just said its bad news for a lot of people.

 

Now, don't shoot me down for reporting this, just keep a lookout for the report when released and go from there.

 

Hopefully this will explain all the numbers and detailed events to satisfy both sides of the argument and REMOVE any bias and mystery from these reported numbers and events.

I would be surprised if the ATSB would leak the results of a report before its official release.