Spooks Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Currently looking at home build options in the UK and quite tempted by the Jab 160. Done a bit of reading on the uk forums, spoke to a few LAA guys and they reckon the engines are fine as long as they're maintained, updated and inspected correctly. There are quite a few UL, 430/230 and older models in the UK but very few 160s which makes asking advice over here a bit difficult! I'm primarily looking at hour building so cheap to run and cheap to maintain were my priorities (and the 160 seems to meet that seeing as the Jab uses automotive parts) but what are they like to fly? I'm aware they're used by flight schools in Oz so imagine they're pretty sedate? Current experience is on a C42 Ikarus and a C150 Cessna if either of those are similar. Cheers 1
facthunter Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 High temperature issues may be less likely to be an issue where you are, depending on your engine installation (as always). Nev 1
Spooks Posted January 31, 2016 Author Posted January 31, 2016 Don't be so sure. Sometimes we have a summer heatwave in the UK where it hits 15 degree Celsius for a week. It's so depressing 4 1
scre80 Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Don't be so sure. Sometimes we have a summer heatwave in the UK where it hits 15 degree Celsius for a week.It's so depressing I was there in summer once, it 25 Deg and it was a heat wave, almost had to take the jumper off!! I fly the J170, very similar to the J160. Handles very well and I have never had any issues. 1
Spooks Posted January 31, 2016 Author Posted January 31, 2016 I was there in summer once, it 25 Deg and it was a heat wave, almost had to take the jumper off!!I fly the J170, very similar to the J160. Handles very well and I have never had any issues. The brother in law visits once a year from Oz. He usually looks like he is going snowboarding during the summer! I believe the difference between the 160 and 170 is the wingspan? Thanks for the reply
scre80 Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 The brother in law visits once a year from Oz. He usually looks like he is going snowboarding during the summer!I believe the difference between the 160 and 170 is the wingspan? Thanks for the reply From the Jabiru websire Jabiru J170-D The J170 was developed with the flying schools in hotter climates in mind. It is the J160 with the longer wings of the J230 and a bigger elevator. The longer wings allow it to climb faster in hot conditions. The longer wings also provide more float on landing which is helpful when learning to land. The dual controls and adjustable rudder pedals are continued in this model. The 100 knot TAS cruise speed is still easily achievable at 2850 rpm. Pretty sure the hotter conditions is the UK is not going to be an issue!! 1
stevek Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 The 170 is a 160 with a 230 wing. Hence the 160 is limited to 540kg and the 170 to 600kg. I found the 170 a bit too floaty when landing for my liking. 1
Spooks Posted January 31, 2016 Author Posted January 31, 2016 From the Jabiru websireJabiru J170-D The J170 was developed with the flying schools in hotter climates in mind. It is the J160 with the longer wings of the J230 and a bigger elevator. The longer wings allow it to climb faster in hot conditions. The longer wings also provide more float on landing which is helpful when learning to land. The dual controls and adjustable rudder pedals are continued in this model. The 100 knot TAS cruise speed is still easily achievable at 2850 rpm. Pretty sure the hotter conditions is the UK is not going to be an issue!! I think it'd be renamed the Jabiru 170 Harrier in the UK!
scre80 Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 The 170 is a 160 with a 230 wing. Hence the 160 is limited to 540kg and the 170 to 600kg. I found the 170 a bit too floaty when landing for my liking. I have only ever flown the J170 so not sure about the floating compared to others. But yes it can float a little if you are coming in too fast. 1
jetjr Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Limitation to 544kg is likely linked to stall speed not capacity. Also linked to just 80 hp up front J160 shares wing with most earlier Jabirus and the J200/400 rated to 700kg Im led to believe the J170 is fairly low performance at 600kg.
Russ Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 From experience.........the last thing you want, is a "floaty" aircraft, when dropping into shortish rural strips. Even worse, if you need to final over trees. ( love me 160 )
Kyle Communications Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Jabiru and short strip is a oxymoron
facthunter Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 If you are slow enough it won't float. Your engines idle speed can cause float also. Nev
Russ Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 If you are slow enough it won't float. Your engines idle speed can cause float also. Nev absolutely true.......i've "dead sticked" to feel the difference.......it's a lot. ( getting a jab "off " ..short field, easy, ( <200m ) .....it's "the on" that's more challenging. ( for me )
frank marriott Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Jabiru and short strip is a oxymoron Amazing sataement - obviously very experienced in flying the type. 2
Kyle Communications Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Well I see a lot of Jabiru's at Ycab inc Rotax powered and they all need around 600 mtrs usually some more to land and almost the same to take off. Thats not short...short is 200 to 400 mtrs. A lot of bush strips maybe 600 mtrs if your lucky so you would need to be spot on coming in 1
Kyle Communications Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Oh ... and I have never flown in one but my eyes dont lie
frank marriott Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 600mtrs around 1800ft? I say no more. I've seen a C172 nearly hit a fence at the end of a 2700ft strip but I didn't blame the 172.
Kyle Communications Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 at 600 mtrs you will need to be on the imaginery piano keys on touch down
frank marriott Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 No worries. If you get a chance get someone to demonstrate it for you, you" may " be surprised. (Obviously not someone still learning to fly) 1 3
market Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 I fly a J160D in the tropics, 33 + deg Celsius, as you would expect, you need more runway when at Mtow, ( 540 kg) and keep your approach speed up when landing, you will use 600 m or yards. You can, at 470 kg at 15 deg, use way less ground roll, be airborne befor 300 m. When landing at that weight, full flap, more throttle to make up for the extra drag created, you can touch down at 55 kn and pull up very quick. I did 281 hrs last year in the 160. Love it. If you build one, make it water tight, mine is factory and it leaks in rain around the door seal. 1 1
jetjr Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 If you have the strip why would you try to land really short? Just raising the risk for no purpose. Jabiru arent a STOL aircraft, dont pretend to be, but out cruise most that are. depends what you want. Theres new door gutters which fix the rain issue, can fit them to old types.
facthunter Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Long landings are done when people have a lot of runway and get used to carrying a little extra for mum. They adopt the habit of doing it this way. They go somewhere else and have trouble with the shorter runway. You are safer carrying a bit of manoeuvering speed margin but there are times when you need to be right on so you don't float all the way down the strip. I prefer to have a bit of power on and a lower approach angle consequently, in this situation. This is what is often called a "precautionary approach" and if you cut the power at the right time you won't float far. Nev 1
market Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 jetjr, I believe you would be a cautious and safe pilot, so am I, but I don't always have the luxury of a long strip. I fly remote 99% of the week, into short gravel strips, rough grass strips, narrow strips amongst trees, strips that head up hill, some that begin from the edge of water, one has a hill at the end, on the edge of a flood plain, and where the water has crocodiles. I have to be able to reliably land, I don't want a fright, or a "that was close". I practice some thing different every time I fly. Whether its GA flying, or RAA, it will hurt if I get it wrong. I never said the Jabiru was a STOL aircraft. Short take off to me is a Zenith with a 115 hp Rotax that gets airborne in 30 meters, and lands pretty much similar. My Jabiru is a new type, 18 months old, it has door gutters, it still leaks water in rain around the door seals. No one should practice short landings on a short strip, practice on a long strip with lots of margin. When we can land long, perfectly and reliably, in all weather conditions, then we can shorten the quest, till we can land and take off short, safely. Thankfully, we are all different, and have different purposes for flying. Cheers 3
facthunter Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The pressure inside the cabin is normally lower than outside. You would have to vent the cabin differently to change that and stop the ingress of water. Nev
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