kasper Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Not meaning to be disagreeable Kasper, but my 912ULS has a 'fail to WOT' system, not to closed throttle. So if the primary throttle cable breaks (or disconnects for whatever reason) then both carbys go to full throttle. Or if either of the secondary throttle cables disconnects after the splitter, then the carby on that side goes to full throttle. On mine that's how the carby spring-return system was set up from the factory, and is the reason that many of the 912 powered planes I've flown have a tendency for the throttle to creep open while taxiing, due to the return springs being at 'full stretch' when the throttle is at idle, or at a low power setting.Is that something that only the newer R912s have, or has the system been reversed on your trike, perhaps? Nope - fail to WOT is not standard on the 80hp 912 and MANY manufacturers modded the carbs to fail to WOT to get around this - not bought an 80hp 912 for 4 years and not bought a 100hp at all so I am not sure whats changed if anything on the direect from Rotax carb fit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've never liked fail to WOT. A good system has a high quality push pull cable with doubled up locators for inner and outer cable and a throttle friction adjustable. Done properly it's as close to fail safe as anything can be in an aeroplane. You nearly always have to yank the throttle closed and nearly pull it out of the dash by the roots to get it on the idle stop, and keep it there. with spring to WOT. Hate it.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 When I was learning on the C172 the approach check was BUMFHH - "Brakes, Undercarriage, Mixture, Flaps, Hatches & Harnesses" - the "Undercarriage" check was to look out the side window and make sure the wheels were still there. Never had a problem with that item! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 we are free to design, build and use non-fail safe system eg R912 carbs than fail to throttle closed which is arguable less safe than failing to full open, During a recent training course I was told the fail to idle setup is a trike thing, and that is the only place that I have seen it. Every fixed wing Rotax that I have seen is sprung to fail to WOT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 WOT got me home after the throttle cable failed - internal to the sleeve so wasn't noticed at inspection - should've been replaced at engine overhaul but wasn't (overhaul done prior to TBO due prop strike). From FAR 23: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 During a recent training course I was told the fail to idle setup is a trike thing, and that is the only place that I have seen it. Every fixed wing Rotax that I have seen is sprung to fail to WOT. Yes, I was told it was a trike thing too. I like the concept of WOT fail. Climb then engine off, glide. Restart engine (hopefully) and repeat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Engine off by cutting ignition on an aircooled motor after any prolonged period of WOT could probably destroy it. It's likely to diesel to destruction. You would have to climb too to keep airspeed in limits on quite a few planes . Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 During a recent training course I was told the fail to idle setup is a trike thing, and that is the only place that I have seen it. Every fixed wing Rotax that I have seen is sprung to fail to WOT. So what I hear is you have never flown a fixed with rotax 2stroke running bing 54 carbs ... they ALL fail to closed regardless of trike or fixed wing. And on the 912 yes you are correct - some move the spring in the carb to go full close from a factory setting of full open My mistake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I wouldn't like to give the OK to an elevator system with no redundancy. Without the elevator you are DEAD.(unless you can walk up and down the fuselage, or have a trim system as secondary). Nev My Drifter (no trim) has no pitch control redundancy. With that in mind, I've had a bit of a play, and found that with a bit of care, I could do a circuit and land without touching the stick, using rudder and power only. Admittedly, I have done better landings, but I've also done worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 So what I hear is you have never flown a fixed with rotax 2stroke running bing 54 carbs ... they ALL fail to closed regardless of trike or fixed wing. I quoted your post where you referred to 912 Rotaxs. I didn't think I needed to type 912 again........... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The retract high wing Cessna U/C is the weirdest ever made. It has more drag during the retract cycle than when gear down. Nev Got a story from friend Dick Donnely [ RIP ] ( at Berwick ) He said that he was flying IWK one day, and on downwind leg at Jerilderie he selected gear down, and it cycled halfway. He said that the other pilot with him hung out of the door with seat belt wrapped around his legs. . . and pulled and tugged at it until it continued to cycle. NOW. . . I won't speak ill of the dear departed, but Dick was a real good story teller. If this was actually true, I'd have been horrified to watch ! ! ! I'd be a little apprehensive about a stuck gear landing in a 210,. . . especially if it had stuck with the wheels at right angles to the airflow ! I agree nev, that gear was a wonder to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneL Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Early 210's with gear bay doors were the most likely models to have gear trouble, if the doors were not adjusted right they would interfere with the legs during an operating cycle. Wayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got a story from friend Dick Donnely [ RIP ] ( at Berwick ) He said that he was flying IWK one day, and on downwind leg at Jerilderie he selected gear down, and it cycled halfway. He said that the other pilot with him hung out of the door with seat belt wrapped around his legs. . . and pulled and tugged at it until it continued to cycle. NOW. . . I won't speak ill of the dear departed, but Dick was a real good story teller. If this was actually true, I'd have been horrified to watch ! ! !I'd be a little apprehensive about a stuck gear landing in a 210,. . . especially if it had stuck with the wheels at right angles to the airflow ! I agree nev, that gear was a wonder to behold. That story was close. From memory the first example was someone had another person hold his belt then opened the rear door and used a seat belt to snag the gear, then pulled it down. Others did the same unaided, and that's now unofficial procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 That story was close. From memory the first example was someone had another person hold his belt then opened the rear door and used a seat belt to snag the gear, then pulled it down. Others did the same unaided, and that's now unofficial procedure. Thanks Turbo,. . . I remember the "Holding onto the belt" bit now. I'm so glad it wasn't a hangar story ! ( Sorry for doubting the tale Dick. ) Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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