Jabiru engines

[facthunter]

Yes it does, but it has liquid cooled heads. That makes the engine complex but gives it a less critical operating regime. For years they said the motor will operate without coolant. It will for a short time. The "word" was this motor was effectively the answer to a "maidens " prayer. reliability figures off the scale compared to "other " engines. The 80 HP variant was probably the best of the batch. Nothing is perfect. The ongoing performance is the product of many things, including how things are treated in the field, long term. One of the best aspects of the 912 Rotax is people didn't fiddle with it. Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

probably didnt fiddle with it because they didnt have to. I know mine has been fantastic...not huge hours by any means but never gets hot and just runs

 

 

[coljones]

probably didnt fiddle with it because they didnt have to. I know mine has been fantastic...not huge hours by any means but never gets hot and just runs

Some people just can't resist a good fiddle. Having water plumbing around slows them down considerably.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Wow ! Loooong thru' bolts! Nicer looking cylinders, Nikasil; is just a trade name, everybody and his mate produces good quality plated liners now . Also for many boat engines , snowmobiles, Dirt bikes (2 and 4 stroke) chainsaws ect ect. nothing new or to be afraid of there. Great heat transfer, very low wear and good ring sealing ( once you run them in , which will be tricky) Just four nuts per head? May well be OK.... But those through bolts, hats off to Jab if they make that work.....

 

 

[Brett]

VW bolts don't seem to break

 

 

[jetjr]

Few plating issues in small run production. Not easy I believe

 

Jabiru through bolts wont break anymore now harmonics sorted.............

 

Last pic I saw had two extra bolts in heads. 4 bolt version did not do very well however heads are a thread/shrink fit like other aero types now too I think.

 

Guess you can remove head separately anymore

 

 

[facthunter]

What they have done is good in principle as far as it goes. Perhaps the cylinder and head could have been one piece? Most "regular " aero engines effectively are. Eliminating the join has advantages, that make it worth doing. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Maybe but with historical valve/guide issues it was a nice feature to remove and replace separately, also didnt interfere with case tensions, bearing clearances etcetc when work required on a head.

 

 

[Yenn]

I find it funny that people here are posting that they want to change to Camit engines for better reliability.

 

How many Camit engines have done 1000 or 2000 hours yet and how many have had problems.

 

I really can't see that the large number of engines in use of Jabiru origin can statisticly be compared with the small number of Camit engines. In any case are Camit still in production?

 

 

[jetjr]

You might have missed that much of this thread is years old

 

Camit have plenty of hours including hundreds of solid lifter Jabiru engines in service and on second lives.

 

Whatever the sucess or problems with this Gen 4 engine, it is all Jabiru owners have as an option going forward. CAE are gone and Jabiru have chequered history introducing new components and design features into their engines.

 

They also limited experience manufacturing parts for them in house.

 

This new engine has to go well and meet expectations. Owners are hurting badly.

 

 

[Yenn]

Those Jabiru engines manufactured by Camit were really jabiru engines.

 

Having had a tour through the camit factory years ago I am sad to see them closed up. It was an amazing experience to see block aluminium going in and an engine coming out. But they were Jab not Camit.

 

The idea that camit have plenty of hours, really says that camit were responsible for the failed jab engines.

 

 

[Riley]

Those Jabiru engines manufactured by Camit were really jabiru engines.Having had a tour through the camit factory years ago I am sad to see them closed up. It was an amazing experience to see block aluminium going in and an engine coming out. But they were Jab not Camit.

The idea that camit have plenty of hours, really says that camit were responsible for the failed jab engines.

Unless I've missunderstood you Yenn, that's an unwarranted comment. Camit were building Jab engines to Jab certified specs. Ian's many futile attempts to get the Jabiru higher-paid-help to look at new ideas and/or improvements were most likely the nucleous of the ultimate impasse that evolved between Jabiru and Camit.

 

 

[jetjr]

There weren't many problems with solid lifter versions, and they were similar to CAE engines and the basis for later releases .

 

Most serious issues started, including newly discovered harmonics, with the introduction of hydraulic lifters. A Jabiru designed upgrade and this point is where the two companies designs deviated.

 

CAE were also building engines and parts to very high standards and to cheap prices. Yet to see if Jabiru can maintain that situation. Hoping they can.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Unless I've missunderstood you Yenn, that's an unwarranted comment. Camit were building Jab engines to Jab certified specs. Ian's many futile attempts to get the Jabiru higher-paid-help to look at new ideas and/or improvements were most likely the nucleous of the ultimate impasse that evolved between Jabiru and Camit.

Absolutely agree.

 

 

[facthunter]

With parallel valves a cylinder/head made unitary has not a lot of difficulty with servicing, but the equipment and knowledge is a bit more specialised. The extra reliability and thermal conductivity is worth it I believe. Hot spots in that steel cylinder are common as are scratches, both of which indicate the engine is not happy. Thin steel is a fairly ordinary conductor of heat and when it's too hot oil won't stay on it. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Additional Information on the Generation 4 Jabiru Engines:-

 

Firstly, there will be no increase in price for the new engines. The 2200 is AU$15,950 inc gst and the 3300 is AU$20,900.00 inc gst

 

There have been 1,300 flight hours performed during development of the engine, plus the mandatory 200 hour endurance run for the ASTM standard.

 

We have one 3300 and two 2200 Generation 4 engines in aircraft at the moment and one Generation 4 3300 engine waiting to be installed in a new factory built J230 that is currently on production.

 

To answer the question we have been asked on the sealing of the heads. The head is screwed on to the barrel similar to Lycoming and Continental except that we also have 4 long through bolts which are terminated in the cylinder heads. This in effect seals the heads to the barrel as well as the thread and holds the cases together. There is no periodic maintenance required on these bolts.

 

Pistons have been redesigned to suit the different expansion rates of the aluminium cylinders.

 

The flywheel assembly has been redesigned to reduce its rotational mass. The connection to the crankshaft is a nil maintenance item.

 

Oil consumption is dramatically reduced. Our experience to date is that it is not necessary to top up the oil between oil changes. This is due to running much smaller clearances between the pistons and the barrels. This is possible because the barrels expand away from the piston as the engine heats up.

 

The alternator is ventilated to improve cooling.

 

We have an improved system of clamping inlets and exhaust pipes to the cylinder head using a heavy o-ring on the inlet and a circular section copper ring on the exhaust with a single 4 legged clamp, similar to motorcycle practice.

 

The Generation 4 engines retain the valve relief pistons, roller follower cam and double valve springs however the camshaft on the 2200 is not interchangeable with Generation 3 engines as the cylinders have been made identical. The cylinders for the Generation 4 engines now fit both 2200 and 3300 engines. Previous generation 2200 engines had left and right hand cylinder heads. The bore, stroke and compression ratio have not changed.

 

The weight is slightly less than the current engine.

 

 

[jetjr]

Reads nice but a few implications, would appear no easy upgrade from current setup, especially for 2200 owners

 

Will need full rebuild or newey.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I would not have thought that Jab. will like all those nice new bits on old cases. has there been any attempt to even out mixtures? Heads scewed to the barrels is lovely....

 

 

[jetjr]

There aren't any new 3300 cases so won't have much choice.

 

 

[biggles]

As of today, Jab still have 4, 'generation 3' - 2200 engines available for sale ..... Bob

 

 

[jetjr]

Could be very valuable to a owner of a certificated model

 

 

[Yenn]

Jetjr said "Camit have plenty of hours including hundreds of solid lifter Jabiru engines in service and on second lives" in post 110.

 

That is what I was alluding to. We can hardly say that those Jab engines which were built by Camit and didn't fail can be added to Camit engines to prove their superior safety record.

 

I really don't know what camits record is i havn't heard of any failures and am sad that they are no longer in business. I am also sad that Jab engines have such a bad reputation, especially when I have one that performs very well. I really don't see that Jabs record is so bad, but it has been well and truly maligned by knockers and CASA.

 

 

[facthunter]

Jab engines suit the Corby where it's moving along quite briskly. Its probably a little overpowered which is nice. Nev

 

 

[Mick]

I am also sad that Jab engines have such a bad reputation, especially when I have one that performs very well. I really don't see that Jabs record is so bad, but it has been well and truly maligned by knockers and CASA.

So you are saying that Jab engines are good based on your single engine? Going by that Cammit only needed to produce one engine with no problems to be just as good?

 

As Nev has said your Corby being small & fast does not work the engine hard and cools it well. Hardly representative of your common Jab engine working enviroment.

 

 

[Yenn]

No Mick I am saying that Camit cannot claim that their engines are good because they built a lot of Jab engines that havn't failed. I am sure Ian Bent would never have made that claim.

 

The mention of my own engine was just an aside.