Whats the difference ??

[Guest Wayne]

Hi all, Well a bit of advice would be great for me. after many years i have decided i should get into flying, its something i have always loved and now is the time to do it, or forget it. things that im wondering about is what type of aircraft should i look at learning on ? Trikes look great and look like a lot of fun but Drifters or Thrusters look just as appealing to me a GT 500 yes sounds good. Yes id love a Jabba or a tecnam but my wife would hit the roof at the cost. I just want to fly for fun, be able to do some cross country and enjoy being in the air. but i don't understand the pros and cons of each type of aircraft. IE Trike or 3 Axis

 

any advice would be great and appreciated.

 

Regards Wayne

 

Bendigo Vic:)

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

G'day Wayne,

 

Firstly welcome, you'll enjoy this forum, and learn a lot too. I'm sure you'll get some answers to your queries soon.

 

It might be a good idea to attend the Echuca Fly In which is on in a week or so on 3-4 Nov. You'll see plenty of different planes there and you'll be able to speak to their owners. That might help you to make a decision.

 

BTW I'm from near Bendigo too.

 

Peter.

 

 

[storchy neil]

wayne welcome echuca week end would be the ideal you will get to see the toys for boys and girls that are differant

 

the choice of plane will have you going round in circles as there are many differant types

 

the minister for finance must rule see you at echuca flyin neil

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Wayne, one thing I noticed flying drifters is it is dificult to get a female to sit in the back of one for more than one or two flights - probably explains my high turnover of girlfriends. Unless the idea is to discurage the Boss flying with you - your probably better off getting a cabin aircraft.

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Thanks peter, I was delighted to see the echuca flyin is on next week. Will I be there YOU BET.

 

Thanks mate

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Guys thanks to you all for the advice, as i said to peter Im off to Echuca ! and looking forward to seeing some different types of aircraft. as for getting my wife in the back of a drifter. I just knew i was not off to a good start when she said " Me in the back of one of those, Get real". My reply, "well have fun at home im going flying" !;)

 

 

[Yenn]

Wayne. All the above advice looks good to me. I have flown a trike and it was great fun, but me preference is with a 3 axis aircraft.

 

If you are not going great distances, say over 100nm, then the difference in speed between a Drifter and a plastic fantastic is not as much as you would expect. I fly at 100kts in a Corby and if I leave directly behind a Drifter and we go 50nm, the Drifter will possibly be in the circuit just after I have landed.

 

One point not mentioned so far is fuel consumption. A Drifter will probably use 16 litres per hour of 2 stroke mix, while a 4 stroke of the same power would use 10 l of straight fuel. There is also the problem of carrying and mixing 2 stroke oil, while travelling away from your base. Don't let it worry you but just bear it in mind.

 

Above all else enjoy it.

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Thanks Ian good advice. Most of my flying I assume will be no more than about 50Nm from home. I say that now, but who knows. the way i see it if i decide on a trike I can pack it up and bring it home, No hanger charges. and its cheep flying. if i go for something in the 3 axis type then where do I keep it. I don't know alot about trikes only what I have been able to find out on the net. some one may be able to tell me do your arms get tired after flying for a while? are they easy to fly? what are the ongoing costs, ect. all questions my wife is SURE to ask before I have the nod to spend up. don't get me wrong she is a great lady, as she said Its a wifes job to ask the hard questions. **laugh**

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

...If you are not going great distances, say over 100nm, then the difference in speed between a Drifter and a plastic fantastic is not as much as you would expect. ...

True, except when you have a component of headwind. For example take a trike that travels at 40kts. A 20kt headwind has meant his travel time has doubled over that with no wind. A 100kt cruise machine will be impacted only by a 25% increase. As a Jabiru owner I grumble when there are headwinds where I'm going, As a Trike Owner I had to determine if I really wanted to go.

 

Thats not to say trikes are no good, they are fantastic fun when its the journey and not the destination that matters. Wanting my cake as well I wanted good journeys and good destinations.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

... some one may be able to tell me do your arms get tired after flying for a while? are they easy to fly? what are the ongoing costs, ect. ...

Wayne

 

To start with yes, most learners and potentially low hour pilots tend to want to fight every bit of turbulence and or pull the bar back in close to your chest to get those extra few kts of speed. After some time you'll learn to correct only the movements that count rather than every single one, and will fly in cruise trim, where the bar isn't pulled back.

 

When you can do that, its the capacity of your bladder and the Outside Air Temp that defines how long you'll stay airborne, not the fatigue in your arms (generally) and rarely the capacity of the fuel tank.

 

Easy to fly? IMHO yes. I fly both and have no control reversal issues that some will talk about when transitioning from weightshift to 3-axis. Again IMHO you don't have trouble walking just because you've chosen to ride a bike for a while. but its a common discussion point and is perpetuated I think by those that have, to continue the analogy, walked their entire life and comment as they get on a bike for the 1st time.

 

As to the pull it down and throw it on the back of a trailer.... yes that can be done but with modern new trikes costing upward of $55k its the setup / tear down and transportation that most likely to damage your machine. Note 2nd hand machines are available much cheaper than that. When I got my machine I to intended to do the same thing.... I had a hangar share within 6months, after flying all day the tear down, pack-up and trailering was not something to look forward to.

 

I'll recommend, as many others have already said to people like you looking for initial guidance, book yourself a trial flight in each of the aircraft types you think your interested in. Note the flying characteristics of each, and perhaps more importantly the instructional style of the guy that takes you up in each. Good instruction, at the beginning, is probably more important than the machine type (subject to affability(hmmm freudian slip I meant affordibility) issues of course). Once you have one type mastered there is no reason to not consider alternative types after all, despite the passion that is shown by most of us for one type of another... puggish CT's excepted of course, there are few here that wouldnt try something different if that was the only way we could get our flying fix.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hello Wayne

 

If you mean "are trikes easy to learn to fly" then Yes. I suspect that an average student (if there were such a thing) would probably get their pilot certificate in a slightly less hours than they would in a 3-axis. But to get the best out of either takes longer.

 

No, your arms don't get tired - you don't have to flap them to stay in the air ;-))

 

More seriously, trikes are very stable so in smooth air they will fly straight and level without any input from the pilot. In turbulent air, it is necessary for the pilot to correct any deviation from the desired trajectory. In a trike this is done by moving the whole wing so it takes a bit more effort than a 3-axis with moveable control surfaces. For this reason trikes are often flown in early mornings / evenings when the conditions are most pleasant. This is more through choice than necessity as numerous epic expeditions have been done in trikes - search the web for Brian Milton, Colid Bodill, Mike Blyth etc etc.

 

As you are aware, one of the advantages of trikes is the easy of derigging and it is perfectly feasible to keep them on a trailer in the garage thus saving hanger fees. Its quite common for people to trailer them when they go on holiday so they can do some flying in other parts of the country. But, where possible, people prefer to leave them rigged at an airfield. Its quicker to go flying and, continually rigging/derigging and towing them around risks damage.

 

Ongoing costs depend on the type, how often you fly and many other variables. A friend of mine recently sold the trike he had for 7 or 8 years and reckoned his flying worked out at $35 hour IIRC. Though fuel was pretty cheap for most of that time.

 

You've already been given the best advice - try different types aand see what takes your fancy

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I can't argue with your maths Andy but, whatever you fly, when you are against a headwind its hard not to want a faster machine.

 

For me, I try to remember that, if it takes 4 hours instead of 3 to do a trip, thats a good thing. I fly for pleasure so means I spend longer doing it :-)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS I can explain no better than to quote a friend of mine after we did a 900nm round trip to Natfly this year - "Trikes may be slower than a lot of machines available today but the sense of achievement and smile factor is proportionally greater"

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I fly for pleasure so means I spend longer doing it :-)Cheers

 

John

Yeah I know what you mean, however I can remember a time in a trike in my 1st year where I was flying north from Adelaide into a stiff headwind. At the time I was thinking that I wouldnt be surprised to see a horse overtake me on the ground.

 

Of course, coming home I was king!!

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Hey Guys the info you have given me has been fantastic, Ive spent the last few weeks reading books and have learnt more from you in the last couple of hours than i have in the last few weeks. Andy and John thanks for the info on Trikes I had visions of having to land every hour to give your arms a rest, Not so ! Great. going back about 20 years ago I tried Glider flying for around 6 months and loved it, then moved with work so i took up learning to fly a Cessna 152 even flew solo for a couple of flights so i suppose i had about 11 or so hours in the 152 then my work as a radio announcer moved me again, as i didnt know any one in my new town i gave up, and have not flown for about 20 years.

 

Now ive grown up and have a real job. A couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure of Flying with the CFA on a fire spotting trip and yes you guessed it BANG ! the bug has hit again.

 

Thanks so much to you all for your help and advice. Hope to see some of you in Echuca, I'll be the one with the big smile on my face the person behind saying HOW MUCH will be the wife.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

The person behind ... so you've settled on a Drifter ?

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

one never knows High Plains, One never knows. Looks like i have to find a school that can give me a try at a

 

Drifter

 

Trike

 

and Tecnam or Jabbiru

 

What ever i decide on I'll let you know

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

At the time I was thinking that I wouldnt be surprised to see a horse overtake me on the ground. Andy

Yes been there etc etc. Crossing the English Channel, I have been passed by one of the ferries (& it wasn't a high-speed catarmaran !). But looking back I find that those are the types of flights that I remember. The early morning, smooth as silk, flights are great at the time but they do tend to blur rather in my memory as I get older. Still love it all though !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest pipross]

Hi Wayne, I have a similar query to you, I've done my advanced (New Zealand) micro cert on tecnams and have really enjoyed it, but the $$$ required to buy one, especially if I'm flying locally (we don't have as big distances over here :big_grin:) makes it a struggle to justify... unless I win lotto of course, plus I can use a trike off the farm rather than building a major airstrip, good luck

 

Ross