ATC Question Thread

[cherk]

If fools only affected themselves, it would still be bad enough, but to follow their advice means you have adopted their foolishness for yourself and that's a health hazard. Nev

Prophetic ! ( sounds like my relationship with the ex-wife , until woke up)

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi Guys,

 

A couple of questions regarding flight following.

 

1. You have lodged a flight notification that has multiply stages due to landing for refulling etc. You're receiving flight following, what is the procedure of reestablishing flight following once you have say refulled. Do you call up and request flight following again or confirm that you are airborne again with the squawk that was assigned.

 

2. When you are changing area frequency with BNE Centre and they say contact 125.1 once dailed in what is the correct phrasing is it "Alpha Bravo Charlie withyou on 125.1"

 

Would appreciate your feedback

 

Cheers

 

 

[ian00798]

Hi Kiwi,

 

If you have multiple legs in the system, let the controller know what leg your on, for example say Tamworth for Armidale so we know which flight plan to use. It will have a different squawk code to the previous leg, as that's the way Eurocat code assignment works. In fact, ideally before you land on your previous leg, let the controller know that you will be requesting a flight following for your next leg so we can get the plan. In most cases VFR plans aren't automatically sent to the controller, so it may take us a few minutes to get them.

 

When changing frequency just say Brisbane centre, ABC maintaining 4500. Don't tell us the frequency, we can see that on our equipment, we only care about what your level is.

 

 

[KRviator]

In regards to Flight Following, what is the best, or preferred time, to cancel it on descent to your destination, or intermediate airport? Can we hang on to it right up to the circuit area if surveillance coverage is available?

 

 

[nathan_c]

+1 to Ian's reply.

 

KR, you certainly can hang on to it for as long as surveillance coverage exists, right up until the circuit area. For e.g if you were ADSB equipped flying into Roma, I would be able to continue providing the flight following right up until you landed as we receive ADSB on the ground there. As for preferred time, I guess thats really up to you. At the end of the day, if we need to cancel it due to reasons like workload, the fact you have left surveillance then we will do that and we will tell you. Up until that point if you havnt been told its cancelled, and you want to keep it then feel free.

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi Kiwi,If you have multiple legs in the system, let the controller know what leg your on, for example say Tamworth for Armidale so we know which flight plan to use. It will have a different squawk code to the previous leg, as that's the way Eurocat code assignment works. In fact, ideally before you land on your previous leg, let the controller know that you will be requesting a flight following for your next leg so we can get the plan. In most cases VFR plans aren't automatically sent to the controller, so it may take us a few minutes to get them.

 

When changing frequency just say Brisbane centre, ABC maintaining 4500. Don't tell us the frequency, we can see that on our equipment, we only care about what your level is.

Cheers for that Ian

Also one other question with RAAus aircraft and ATC picking up the lodged flight plan.

 

My call sign is CT6669 so when lodging should I put the correct aircraft ID and Rego being 24-6669 the last couple of times I've lodged with CT6669 in both the aircraft ID and Rego and didn't seem to have had a problem or does that cause confusion when trying to find the plan?

 

Cheers

 

Flying Kiwi

 

 

[ian00798]

I think there are several different ways to do ra Aus flight plans, although I would be very careful about putting the aircraft type and last 4 numbers of the rego in the aircraft ID, as you may get really unlucky and confuse it with some of the airline callsigns. The way I do it is put the last 4 digits of the rego in the aircraft ID, ie 6669, then in the rego field I would put 24-6669, and in field 18 of the flight plan I would put RMK/ RT CALLSIGN CT 6669. The many different ways of planning ra Aus flights can make it tricky to find them, but I think our flight data coordinators can find them by searching departure/destination and then they will send them to us.

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I think there are several different ways to do ra Aus flight plans, although I would be very careful about putting the aircraft type and last 4 numbers of the rego in the aircraft ID, as you may get really unlucky and confuse it with some of the airline callsigns. The way I do it is put the last 4 digits of the rego in the aircraft ID, ie 6669, then in the rego field I would put 24-6669, and in field 18 of the flight plan I would put RMK/ RT CALLSIGN CT 6669. The many different ways of planning ra Aus flights can make it tricky to find them, but I think our flight data coordinators can find them by searching departure/destination and then they will send them to us.

Thanks for the quick reply, appreciate it.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Yep e.g. competition aerobatic pilots

And many glider pilots.

 

Kaz

 

 

[inas]

So my ask ATC question! About Holsworthy and R555.

 

In the ERSA for Holsworthy it says that the upper level for military traffic in R555 is 2000ft. The class C there comes down to 2500ft. The ERSA says that clearance may be available to transit R555 above 2000ft from Sydney Centre. All the Sydney Basin flying guides say to remain clear of R555, and give guidance to do so. But departing Bankstown to the south, you could really cut the corner if you could transit R555 at 2500. But you'd have to get the clearance pretty soon after take-off to make it worthwhile.

 

So, does anyone ever heard this done? What form would the clearance request take? The area has RA3 status, so you can't file a plan through it, and Bankstown likely won't give you a clearance. Is this possible, or should I perish the thought?

 

 

[Pearo]

Got a question for the area guys/gals. Earlier this year I had an incident with fuel imbalance that I thought was possibly a fuel blockage. I contacted Brisbane Centre because I knew there was parachute ops in the area and I wanted the most direct route back to the airport. They ID'd me and ask me a bunch of questions regarding the problems and if I needed emergency services as well as offered me traffic information. At one point I switched to CTAF to broadcast my inbound call and I missed a call from Centre. (2 com's, but I was transmitting at the time ATC contacted me)

 

So the question is, when you are on something like flight following or the situation I had, what is the process to let ATC know you are changing frequencies to broadcast on CTAF? Was I just unlucky to get a call when I was transmitting or is there a proper procedure?

 

I am currently studying for my IREX at the moment, so I guess the question is relevant to IFR flights also.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

If you are unable to monitor two frequencies at the same time have a look at AIP GEN 3.3-16 para 2.16.12/13. i.e. you need to maintain continuous listening watch & if you're going to change to the CTAF freq you really don't need flight following anymore so terminate the service.

 

 

[docjell]

Docs are always castigated for using docspeak ! To me - "primary paint" is what my grandaughter does at daycare in the mornings- WTF?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Primary paint means no transponder, the radar has picked up a targe but has no information as to its altitude or ident.

 

 

[KRviator]

Primary radar is what people usually think of when you mention 'radar'. The antenna sends out a radio wave and the metal structure of the aircraft reflects some of this energy back to the antenna that is then available for display on the scope of the controller. No altitude info, not very useful.

 

Following on fromthis, we have "SSR" or Secondary Surveillance Radar, that sends out a pulse that is recieved by your teansponder that then replies with a radio message containing your code and altitude, and if you've pressed it, the Ident beacon. This SSR has much longer range and as it has your code and altitude is what controllers predominantly use.

 

 

[facthunter]

Or xyz, Turn left 30 degrees for identification. Nev

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi guys,

 

Question regarding your inbound call into Class D.

 

Would you do an initial cold call e.g.

 

Tamworth Tower - Alpha Bravo Charlie, Cessna 172, Request.

 

Then wait for their reply, or would you just blurt your intentions out being position, altitude, information received, inbound, request clearance in the first instance.

 

Cheers

 

 

[ian00798]

I would normally open with Tamworth Tower ABC Inbound Details, or Transit Details. Just gives them a chance to grab a strip and get ready for the information. If you just blurt everything out and they are on a coord line or something your just going to have to say it all again anyway

 

 

[ben87r]

I would normally open with Tamworth Tower ABC Inbound Details, or Transit Details. Just gives them a chance to grab a strip and get ready for the information. If you just blurt everything out and they are on a coord line or something your just going to have to say it all again anyway

Do you also appreciate the same with a departure call Ian?

 

"Centre abc departure" currently getting a bashing on the other flying forum.

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I would normally open with Tamworth Tower ABC Inbound Details, or Transit Details. Just gives them a chance to grab a strip and get ready for the information. If you just blurt everything out and they are on a coord line or something your just going to have to say it all again anyway

Thanks

When you say inbound details, how much detail are you providing in that initial call.

 

I was thinking just calling with Callsign and letting them come back, as you say don't want to overload when I would have to repeat.

 

Cheers

 

 

[SDQDI]

In the couple of times I flew into tamworth the initial call had no details just as simple as "tam tower Hercules 1234 details" then give them details once they ask (once they are ready)

 

 

[ian00798]

Ben, a departure call is quite involved, so I generally prefer a warning call. It just gives me a chance to tell you to standby, controllers have to also talk to other controllers, so even though the frequency may be silent we can be busy. Also it gives us a chance to select the correct aircraft, and we can mentally prepare for what information is about to come.

 

Kiwi,

 

What SDQDI said is pretty much the perfect call. For a tower, they use a different strip for if your actually inbound compared to overflying, that's why I normally prefix with inbound details or transit details. It gives them the chance to grab the appropriate strip, get a pen and get ready for what is about to come. Of course, if you have a flight plan already in you are making their life really easy.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Just wondering re flight following out past Tamworth

 

I went out there to dubbo on the weekend. Once o got 20nm west of Scone they could no longer provide flight following even at 8500 feet

 

They said it was due to lack of radar

 

Was this because it's not part of the normal J curve area or is it because they had a faulty radar out that way.

 

How far west does flight following extend without needing ADS-B

 

 

[ben87r]

Ben, a departure call is quite involved, so I generally prefer a warning call. It just gives me a chance to tell you to standby, controllers have to also talk to other controllers, so even though the frequency may be silent we can be busy. Also it gives us a chance to select the correct aircraft, and we can mentally prepare for what information is about to come.

Thanks Ian, I figured that would be the case, I will continue to do it.

 

 

[ian00798]

Dr,

 

There is a bit of a radar blackspot in the area bounded by Mudgee quirindi scone, we will get you at a085 but it will be very intermittent. You should have come back on radar approaching Mudgee. RADAR coverage can change a bit too, for example today I'm getting people on radar at 2500ft at moree, normally you won't get people until 10000ft out there.

 

The relevant radars for that area are located at the round mountain (near coffs) and Mount Boyce (near katoomba), so there is a pretty significant mountain range in the way down near scone.