Passed the RAAus to RPL conversion today

[rdarby]

Today I passed the flight review which finally got me the RPL. I have had an RAAus Pilot Certificate for 5 years up until now. I didn't apply to convert, I did it from scratch. It makes no real difference. And it also depends on the school and if they understand converting the piece of paper, which mine didn't. I had to learn to fly the plane anyway and don't see the point in applying to convert it in advance.

 

I started a few weeks before I did my first flight by reading the Bob Tait BAK/RPL book. When the school put me through the test, which was when I said I was ready, it was all on weight and balance mostly. I didn't do the pre-solo etc. tests that cover the simple stuff, I focussed on what I didn't know. In theory weight/balance/loading is easy but it gets your brain going too. The Dyson-Holland books are actually more detailed and I think better than Bob Tait, so I used both to study. In theory you can skip the BAK but the school may ask you to do it as they consider it part of the theory needed for the Cessna. And it was good to relearn it, I was surprised at how much I had forgotten.

 

I also applied for the ARN early. That took 3 days. Then I booked the medical. Do that early as you need the ARN and the medical to get an ASIC, and it took some hunting around to find a Dr who was available within 2 weeks. The medical was emailed to me a week after the appointment. I had to wait 2 weeks for the appointment.

 

It took 10.4 hours in total, in a C172M.

 

The first few hours were just getting the feel of the airplane. Not too hard as it doesn't get affected by the wind. I would have considered myself ready for solo at 3 hours. The school I went to wanted me to be checked out completely on the C172 first. Getting used to the trim took a while, as it feels like something old and heavy compared to our lighter airplanes which almost feel like they have power steering by comparison.

 

Instrument flying is not too difficult but I did get the leans, and it needs to be practiced and it not going to mean you should go into cloud. I did that as hours 4 and 5.

 

The rest has essentially been getting ready for the review, and practicing forced landings and precautionary landings over and over, as that showed up that my handling of the airplane was not as good as thought. Low and slow is different in a heavier aircraft. Basically I was preparing for what we would do in a BFR, and it was more about getting those procedures and thinking straight than anything else, and not throwing the aircraft around and not constantly changing the throttle. The engine needs to be handled more gently too.

 

In summary I wanted to get it done sooner and I could have if I had practiced forced landings etc. in my Foxbat, so instead I did 4 hours of that, which included doing the test twice as the first time showed I was not actually even ready for a BFR.

 

I didn't have to redo the radio license, as that was assessed as good enough. I had to, along with everyone, do a basic English assesment which was just being recorded reading paragraphs from a book.

 

Next is nav's to see what the gap is there which includes controlled airspace. My RAAus nav endorsement comes over but I need the PPL nav's for the PPL, or at least enough to be ready for the PPL test.

 

It's not too hard, for me it was more of a general refresher of everything. If you are up to speed on everything and haven't gotten old and slow and full of bad habits, you will do it quicker.

 

But you have to consider why. I need a PPL to fly overseas, but generally a C172, which is all most of us could afford to fly, itsn't worth it. 2 adults and full fuel and a cruise of 105kts is all it can do. You can do better in a SportStar for a lot less money.

 

Good luck to anyone considering it.

 

Ryan

 

 

[Chrism]

Congrats... and thanks for such an informative post. Hope to do it out of a Foxbat too someday.

 

Chris

 

 

[frank marriott]

Today I passed the flight review which finally got me the RPL. I have had an RAAus Pilot Certificate for 5 years up until now. I didn't apply to convert, I did it from scratch. It makes no real difference. And it also depends on the school and if they understand converting the piece of paper, which mine didn't. I had to learn to fly the plane anyway and don't see the point in applying to convert it in advance.I started a few weeks before I did my first flight by reading the Bob Tait BAK/RPL book. When the school put me through the test, which was when I said I was ready, it was all on weight and balance mostly. I didn't do the pre-solo etc. tests that cover the simple stuff, I focussed on what I didn't know. In theory weight/balance/loading is easy but it gets your brain going too. The Dyson-Holland books are actually more detailed and I think better than Bob Tait, so I used both to study. In theory you can skip the BAK but the school may ask you to do it as they consider it part of the theory needed for the Cessna. And it was good to relearn it, I was surprised at how much I had forgotten.

 

I also applied for the ARN early. That took 3 days. Then I booked the medical. Do that early as you need the ARN and the medical to get an ASIC, and it took some hunting around to find a Dr who was available within 2 weeks. The medical was emailed to me a week after the appointment. I had to wait 2 weeks for the appointment.

 

It took 10.4 hours in total, in a C172M.

 

The first few hours were just getting the feel of the airplane. Not too hard as it doesn't get affected by the wind. I would have considered myself ready for solo at 3 hours. The school I went to wanted me to be checked out completely on the C172 first. Getting used to the trim took a while, as it feels like something old and heavy compared to our lighter airplanes which almost feel like they have power steering by comparison.

 

Instrument flying is not too difficult but I did get the leans, and it needs to be practiced and it not going to mean you should go into cloud. I did that as hours 4 and 5.

 

The rest has essentially been getting ready for the review, and practicing forced landings and precautionary landings over and over, as that showed up that my handling of the airplane was not as good as thought. Low and slow is different in a heavier aircraft. Basically I was preparing for what we would do in a BFR, and it was more about getting those procedures and thinking straight than anything else, and not throwing the aircraft around and not constantly changing the throttle. The engine needs to be handled more gently too.

 

In summary I wanted to get it done sooner and I could have if I had practiced forced landings etc. in my Foxbat, so instead I did 4 hours of that, which included doing the test twice as the first time showed I was not actually even ready for a BFR.

 

I didn't have to redo the radio license, as that was assessed as good enough. I had to, along with everyone, do a basic English assesment which was just being recorded reading paragraphs from a book.

 

Next is nav's to see what the gap is there which includes controlled airspace. My RAAus nav endorsement comes over but I need the PPL nav's for the PPL, or at least enough to be ready for the PPL test.

 

It's not too hard, for me it was more of a general refresher of everything. If you are up to speed on everything and haven't gotten old and slow and full of bad habits, you will do it quicker.

 

But you have to consider why. I need a PPL to fly overseas, but generally a C172, which is all most of us could afford to fly, itsn't worth it. 2 adults and full fuel and a cruise of 105kts is all it can do. You can do better in a SportStar for a lot less money.

 

Good luck to anyone considering it.

 

Ryan

So in short, at least in your opinion, is there a skills/knowledge gap between a RPCwith XCountry V an RPL. There is a lot different views about this very point & it was raised with Skidmore at a recent conference with industry by a GA operator locally.

 

I am interested in YOUR opinion having just done the conversion/upgrade.

 

I realise there are various opinions (some with vested interests) about the statement that a RPC is equal to a RPL, so hopefully I can get YOUR opinion without being swamped with quotes about what has been written and the actual reality as experienced by yourself.

 

I know two who have done it locally (including CTA & CTR) but interested in other opinions of pilots who have actually done it.

 

Just about the process, as I have no interest in doing an RPL personally.

 

 

[Pearo]

Well done!

 

The first few hours were just getting the feel of the airplane. Not too hard as it doesn't get affected by the wind. I would have considered myself ready for solo at 3 hours. The school I went to wanted me to be checked out completely on the C172 first. Getting used to the trim took a while, as it feels like something old and heavy compared to our lighter airplanes which almost feel like they have power steering by comparison.

I got a chuckle out of this. I did all my training on the 172, but have not flown one since getting my CSU endorsement and getting into a 182. I got the opportunity to do a small ferry in a 172 last Friday, and I did not realise how nimble and wind affected they are compared to a 182! I can imagine the difference to an LSA now!

 

 

[rdarby]

Frank, in my opinion I don't think there is a difference between a pilot certificate and an RPL. Except for weight and balance which is a bigger deal than I realised. But I have experienced GA pilots opinion on this. And to be fair if you were flying a Drifter you may struggle a bit, but that is the plane not the syllabus.

 

But you still need to learn the heavy plane. It flies differently.

 

I think it depends on what RAAus plane you flew and also your school. I learned on a SportStar and received good training. I then got slack so spent a few hours refreshing myself.

 

Theory exam is the same except for weight and balance.

 

I have no idea about the XC as I am only starting that next week.

 

 

[rdarby]

And of course instrument flying. But that isn't really hard as it is aimed at helping you understand why you should stay clear of cloud.

 

 

[01rmb]

Frank

 

In my opinion after having just completed the RPL transfer along with the CTA and CTR was that they are not that different. My goal was to be able to access CTA/CTR if needed in my own aircraft but as a bonus be able to hire a 172 if I wanted to take more passengers.

 

I already had a medical and ARN from learning out of Archerfield. I applied direct to CASA and got the license issued but needed to do the flight review and CTA/CTR endorsements but also the radio and nav so I would not have any restrictions if I hired a 172. CASA wouldn't issue me the radio endorsement because I had not done the English test. Laughable since all I did to get the English test passed was walk in and ask for the english test and they gave me the paper after taking my money.

 

Doing time in a different heavier aircraft just needed a couple of flights to get used to it - no different to any other change of aircraft. The CTA and CTR was not that different since I learned to fly out of Archerfield - with a couple of flights into C and D airfields to get used to the ATC was all that was needed. A few hours on instruments was handy but not difficult.

 

The biggest difference was the attitude of the GA instructors who had an air of superiority and elitism about them. After doing several flights with the RAA school who was in partnership with the GA school - The GA school kept changing the rules and requiring more flights and more theory tests. They made me do the full PPL theory test because they could then be sure all my theory was up to scratch. They also made me redo a radio theory test again because they thought the one I had done was not good enough - got 90% on their exam without studying. The GA instructor on the flight review made me do every single skill including cross country flight with diversions and lost flight procedures. It was a total of 2 flights and 6 hours.

 

For what was meant to be a straight forward flight review and a couple of endorsements they made it very difficult. They just kept changing the rules and increasing the requirements - In the end I should have walked away but I just wanted to finish it.

 

But really at the end of the day the only difference in flying skills and knowledge was a couple of flights into a C and D class airspace and airfields along with some time on instruments.

 

 

[poteroo]

The biggest difference was the attitude of the GA instructors who had an air of superiority and elitism about them.

A good reason to choose a school where the instructors are qualified RAAus + GA, and operate both schools together. happy days,

 

 

[Geoff13]

The above cases both sound like classic cases of schools chasing dollars rather than schools providing training.

 

I would have ditched the school the minute that they shifted the goal posts the first time.

 

This seems to be a very common problem at least in the Brisbane region. From the several people I have spoken to who have done the conversion they almost all to a person have felt that they were being milked for dollars and had the feeling of being treated as a second class citizen.

 

They area is crying out for a quality school who is looking to provide a good service for a fair price.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

The biggest difference was the attitude of the GA instructors who had an air of superiority and elitism about them.

I've also witnessed this attitude at various aerodromes around the traps, never judge a person by the type of a/c they fly.

 

The GA instructor on the flight review made me do every single skill including cross country flight with diversions and lost flight procedures. It was a total of 2 flights and 6 hours.

Just had a look at your profile to work out where you are from, no luck, this school is definitely a rip off, don't they know the power of social media.

 

 

[Downunder]

Do that early as you need the ARN and the medical to get an ASIC

Not sure what you mean there.

 

I have the ASIC with just the RAA pilot cert.

 

No other requirements needed.

 

 

[rdarby]

It depends on where you got the ASIC. If you get a CASA ASIC you need a medical first. I can't work out how to fill the form in any other way.

 

Not sure what you mean there.I have the ASIC with just the RAA pilot cert.

No other requirements needed.

[coljones]

It depends on where you got the ASIC. If you get a CASA ASIC you need a medical first. I can't work out how to fill the form in any other way.

For any ASIC you need a legitimate purpose to get one. In the case of CASA, in order to exercise the privileges of your licence, you need to have a valid medical. No medical, no independant flying so you can't demonstrate the need for an ASIC (a need discount coffee from M at KSA won't cut it).

In the case of RAA you won't get an ASIC unless you state a valid need (I have had my forms returned because I forgot to give the need)

 

If you are an RAA member you can live on an RAA ASIC and use it for CASA. The downside of an RAA ASIC are the restricted group of people (CFIs, JPs, Board Members) who can witness an application. The CASA witness group is much wider.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Securityid.com.au

 

Do the application online, the simplist way to get an ASIC, I'm only an RAA pilot & from the initial application to receiving my card 2 weeks, the renewal is the same.

 

All you need to say is that you need access to security type airports to get fuel etc.

 

 

[Downunder]

Securityid.com.au Do the application online, the simplist way to get an ASIC, I'm only an RAA pilot & from the initial application to receiving my card 2 weeks, the renewal is the same. All you need to say is that you need access to security type airports to get fuel etc.

Totally agree. Very easy with this company. A JP to witness docs can be a lot easier than the others.

 

A one line statement why you need it.

 

Docs scanned and uploaded...... too easy.....

 

 

[stevenpam]

...all I did to get the English test passed was walk in and ask for the english test and they gave me the paper after taking my money.

Where did you do the English test, and how much was it?

 

 

[rdarby]

Any GA school should do it as part of the RPL. There was no cost.

 

 

[Robbo]

Pretty funny that for a level 6 your basically listening to an audio recording of foreign nationalities talking to ATC and you have to read back what they said.

 

So much for an english language assessment, your basically learning accents of other nationalities and it has nothing to do with english.

 

I know a few 100% Australians that have failed this !! The foreigners should be learning our language and if you are 100% born and bread aussie why are we having to do this?

 

 

[Bats]

Any GA school should do it as part of the RPL. There was no cost.

Your mileage may vary, I was told schools have to pay to become assessors and need to recoup the cost. Yet another rort in my experience.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

I know a few 100% Australians that have failed this !!

My company has a few Aussies that speak no other languages & were assessed as a level 5, the test is taken very seriously up this neck of the woods, it was more of a compression test than a language skills test in my opinion, level 4 required to fly commercially, jeez some of the people I've heard flying airliners I'd give them a level 1.

 

 

[Robbo]

Yep level 6 is not as easy as many would think.

 

I got through it easily but it takes some concentration!

 

 

[ben87r]

My company has a few Aussies that speak no other languages & were assessed as a level 5, the test is taken very seriously up this neck of the woods

Was that based off their CASA licence Benny or were they "reassessed" locally?

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Was that based off their CASA licence Benny or were they "reassessed" locally?

When ICAO brought in the language skills requirement there was nothing on anyones licence reference language skills, most companies have people in house now to conduct the tests, in my case Hong Kong locals (who's second language is english ) who have been blessed by the HKCAD i.e. CASA equivalent to conduct these tests, when they were first done some years ago all our pilots were tested by an Oxford uni language boffin, like Robbo mentioned it was no walk in the park.

 

 

[DWF]

....., it was more of a compression test than a language skills test in my opinion,.....

What is a "compression test"? Did you mean a "comprehension test"? .... Or have I just failed the test?

 

 

DWF

 

 

[Robbo]

Lucky for me level 6 never expires so I won't have to worry about it again !!

 

English language proficiency requirements - changes from October 2015 | Civil Aviation Safety Authority