Let's be up-front about the Black Dog

[old man emu]

Discussing the Black Dog (depression/anxiety disorder) is NOT Off Topic. The Black Dog bites each and every one of us. Some it slobbers on. Some it nips. And for others it mauls.

 

As a group consisting mainly of middle to elderly men, our Life experiences have exposed us to this rabid animal. It is our role as elders of our communities to provide advice and counsel to those whom the Black Dog is tracking.

 

We are a powerful group with wide exposure in the community. Let's use our power and exposure to remove the perceived stigma of talking about our feelings and seeking the correct help.

 

In this, we are never on solo flights.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[Geoff13]

I personally believe that the first step in treating the Black Dog is to get rid of this stupid media taboo on reporting suicide.

 

My 34 year old daughter is today going to the funeral of the 7th person from her year 12 class to commit suicide.

 

My son a Returned Serviceman has lost a very large group from his platoon in Afganistan, all to suicide.

 

I personally lost my Grandfather and both my Parents to suicide.

 

We need to get suicide into the public arena. If we do not we will never stop it. We need to stop sugar coating it. Calling it the black dog is ok but once the dog takes that final step, it needs to be called what it is and it needs to be talked about and reported. Yes it might be hard for those close the the person/persons involved it there is nothing much harder than getting a call saying both your parents are dead.

 

This is the reason I do the hay runs. If I can stop one farmer, farmers wife or farmers child from living through that then I can rest a little easier.

 

A subject very close to home and about which I feel very strongly. And as I say if we do not report it we will not get the general public talking about it.

 

As OME said this is not a solo flight. Lets get it in an A380 and get the world talking about it. In my personal experience it has been the bigest killer of people that I have known bar none and one more will be another one to many.

 

Edited to add,

 

In light of my comments I would like to see the title of this thread to be changed to include the word Suicide, if OME were to agree of course.

 

 

[Bats]

An important topic. I count myself fortunate to have survived life's ups and downs thus far, largely intact and without having to resort to professional help, but have first hand experience of friends and family who haven't been as fortunate, to the point of suicide. And that's really all there is to it - good fortune and I'm acutely aware of the old "there but for the grace of (insert your particular deity), go I!"

 

Not everyone will agree, but it was suggested to me after one loss that it wasn't my role to stop a friend from committing suicide, but to try and support him should he decide not to. The advice resonated with me, because in the particular instance, I and other friends had expended considerable time and energy on the person who ultimately decided to end it and unfair as it may be, there was an element of feeling that we had failed because we didn't get the outcome we desired.

 

Another issue which may be divisive but arises for those standing by, is that your efforts may not appear to be appreciated. Sometimes there are even difficult decisions which need to be made and you'll need to be the baddy for the greater good. I was elected to explain to an uncle that he probably shouldn't be driving until such time as he was stabilised on medication, following a serious bout of depression. In the abstract I was satisfied that his judgement was impaired and had even seen him taking what appeared to be stupid risks in a vehicle - but actually having to play god as it were, was confronting, particularly when my motives were questioned and I had to swallow a flood of abuse for even broaching the subject.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is it is all very well to say you must support your mate, but you need to be aware that their responses will not always be strictly rational and it can put a massive strain on your own mental resources. Look after yourself too.

 

 

[turboplanner]

One very important factor, is not to assume you can talk someone out of it. There are various types of depression, some reactive (such as a reaction to a marriage break up), but others involuntary.

 

Places like Lifeline and Beyond Blue have the professionals who can get the person on the road to classifying their particular type of illness, and in many cases medication can get the person back to a normal life. In other cases it may require a clinincal psychologist, and so on.

 

 

[Diddy Pilot]

Ironically appropriate that after reading the posts above the very next website I visited was the local news site and saw the following article http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/i-told-the-truth-in-my-sisters-obituary-so-that-others-might-choose-to-live-20160323-gnpx1s.html . I think this story sums up the understanding that loved ones gain often too late. The individual who is experiencing depression t the point of suicidal thoughts is not seeing the world as those around them see it. To feel so worthless and undeserving of love or respect is all consuming to the individual yet those around them still see the positives.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That's one of the reasons for my post #4, recommending getting professionals involved as quickly as possible.

 

You sometimes just can't get there with your logic; Tony Hancock, arguably one of the best comedians in the world, killed himself in his hotel room in Melbourne during an Australian tour because he didn't think he was funny any more.

 

 

[planet47]

People need to know that under the NSW Mental Health Act that if a person becomes unwell and there are fears for their safety or for the safety of others from that person that they should be taken to the nearest hospital emergency department. GP's and others can often assist by referral however hospital staff, ambulance and police if necessary can assist the person to hospital for assessment but it is better for the person if they come to the hospital themselves or with a supportive person.

 

 

[old man emu]

What Planet47 said is a true representation of actions that can be taken under the Mental Health Act NSW. However, and there's always an "however", have you ever had to convey a person to an EU in your role as a police person or ambo?

 

For starters, police and ambos are called in by GPs because the patient in these situations is usually violent. That's why you call in the big, burly copper. Once you get them to the EU, the staff there are usually flat out dealing with assault victims, drunks and druggies. So the police or ambos are stuck with guarding the patient until hospital security takes over. The GP, of course, has long since pulled on his PJs and gone to bed.

 

The thing is that the people who would normally need to be handled this way are not very likely to be depressives. The ones who need to be brought to the EU this way are usually long term psychotics whose illness is more likely to be abnormal brain physiology, ie a real medical problem.

 

The people we are talking about, who are suffering from depression, are suffering from a psychological problem caused by their being overwhelmed by adverse circumstances. These people don't need to be dragged off to a Psych Unit. Hopefully, they can be helped by counselling and the support of their friends. I hesitate to say "family and friends" as sometimes family can irritate the depression.

 

OME

 

 

[planet47]

Actually they are often not dragged off to MHUs but a plan is put in place which they find acceptable and helpful. The MHU in the service that I work for get to see approximately 10% of the people that I and my colleagues see in our ED. I work in a team of 8 people who see people who present to ED by various means and for various reasons including suicide attempts and my current list of clients stands at 29 and has been up to 47 at times.

 

My nephew hung himself on the 06/06/2015 because he couldn't live with the knowledge that he had been unable to save his own nephew to whom he was a father figure from a tragic death two years prior to that.

 

 

[old man emu]

But don't you agree that the people who we as laymen can support are the psychologically ill, and the medically trained people should deal with the physiologically ill.

 

A psychologically ill person should be able to receive counselling and support in his/her normal environment before the need comes for emergency intervention.

 

We have come a long way in the past 50 years as a society to accepting certain conditions as a normal part of the human condition. We don't hide Downes Syndrome people, nor those with cerebral palsy. We don't make fun of the ill and infirm. We don't banish those with AIDS or MS, and I think that we accept that people with different sexual patterns are simply that.

 

It's about time we campaigned to let everyone know that mental illness is not to be borne alone. We laypeople might not be able to cure it, but at least we can support sufferers while they strive to get back to "normal"

 

OME

 

 

[planet47]

While I agree that mental illness should not be borne alone no one should be thinking in black and white about people with physiological illnesses and people with psychological illnesses thinking that the twain never meet. There are many causes for psychological illness just like there are many causes for physiological illness and quite often one can be the cause of the other. I have cared for people in the past with AIDS and MS and many other physiological illnesses and often they have been in need of assistance where their mental state is concerned. Did you know that people with cardiac condition are up there in the number of people that commit suicide? For each person that mental health staff see it has been estimated that another five got away without anyone noticing - not even their family nor their friends!

 

My team works 7 days a week from early to late and for want of a better term we decide between the mad, the bad and the sad. The bad do not belong to mental health but the others do and dependent on their risk of harm to either themselves or others they may get to stay with us voluntarily or involuntarily and they may also have physiological illnesses or needs. The youngest I have seen was 8 years old and the oldest was in his 90s.

 

In the past even the recent past I have transported people with mental illnesses by car and also as their escort in an ambulance. Some have been scheduled and others have been voluntary.

 

I talk to people about their mental state which includes many many questions about behaviour, mood, thought content, perception,sleep, appetite, concentration as well as making judgements about thei appearance, affect, thought disorder and cognition. I take into context the use of ETOH, tobacco, prescription and non prescription drugs. A common cause of depression in middle aged smokers is the use of champix to give up smoking. The questions I ask also include the names, etc of any child under 18 and their current whereabouts as I am a mandatory reporter and I also have obligations regarding family and/or relationship violence no matter who the perpetrator is.

 

To think in black and white about treating people only with a physiological illness only in hospital is to err on the wrong path because wherever you have black and white there is always brindle! You should actually ask a person if they are okay and bear in mind there is always brindle somewhere.

 

If you have concerns about anyone you know you should seriously consider getting them help!

 

As an end note I would like to add that if the pilot did commit suicide due to family law court matters, he was in a high risk category as men often do not fair well emotionally in relationship breakups.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Some factors: recently discovered significant connection to poor quality diet (gut / brain connection found to work both ways). Also (somewhat lesser) lack of sunlight exposure - which not cured by merely taking D3 pills. Lack of exercise, preferably do high intensity. Lack of faith - no aim or purpose in life.

 

 

[IBob]

Hugely important subject, OME, though a little difficult to discuss as openly in this venue as we might wish, for the reason that anyone putting their hands up may also be risking their various licenses?

 

I would like to make some observations on the thoughts expressed so far:

 

1. "The people we are talking about, who are suffering from depression, are suffering from a psychological problem caused by their being overwhelmed by adverse circumstances."

 

In some cases that will be true.

 

In other cases, however, there will be no particular "adverse circumstances", and this is part of what makes it so difficult for us to understand: our Western way of thinking is all about 'cause and effect', so if someone is feeling unhappy/sad/desperate, we automatically (and understandably) assume some external, physical, circumstance or event must be causing this. Find that cause, and we've got it nailed. Sadly, it's often not that 'logical'.

 

TP in #4 referred to this: "There are various types of depression, some reactive (such as a reaction to a marriage break up), but others involuntary."

 

2. We are talking about a horrible (and sometimes fatal) condition. There is no dependable 'cure'. I think it is important to be open to all possibilities of treatment. I say this because I have seen people suffer terribly over periods of time, while refusing to consider medication. The usual reason given is that medication will 'change me' in some way, make me a different person. It may also be that accepting medication is seen as some sort of defeat or admission of failure. I do not know.

 

2b. Having said that, medication is absolutely not a cure-all.

 

Despite what we think we know, it all remains very vague: in a nutshell, some medications seem to help some people. Where they do, the results are usually slow and gradual. So far as I know, no medication has yet emerged as any sort of 'star performer'. In practice, then it's all very hit and miss.

 

2c. As for side effects, while almost any medication nowadays comes with a huge list of possible 'downsides', it is my impression that most people do not suffer them.

 

And with regard to the common anti-depressants 'changing you', this does not happen (to my knowledge). I think this idea has crept in from other areas of treatment, perhaps lithium for bipolar disorder.

 

3. I agree absolutely with the need for professional support in all this. However, the reality is that 'professional support' can be as hit and miss as medication. A great deal depends on the understanding and abilities of the particular professional, and beyond a certain point, I don't think this can be taught. And the reason for this is that, while we have some useful ideas and theories, we don't actually understand the condition.

 

In practice, then, and with the best will in the world, some professionals have no 'feel' for this area of work, while some can be very good indeed.

 

I think it is important for the patient and his friends and family to know this: they may need to change doctors/counsellors if what is happening is not helping.

 

 

[facthunter]

Good comment Bob. Thoughtful and true. To see some "path" as THE answer is simplifying it. I know some counsellors who would make you commit suicide. The system needs development, and always will. I'm a bit fortunate in that what a lot think of me is not too important, so I get to make a lot of decisions for myself. We all have kids grandkids and friends who are suffering and I have no idea what advice one could give. Most of us wouldn't be qualified and if the situation is still there which is contributing to the problem, what hope have you? Nev

 

 

[IBob]

Thank you, Nev. Yes, this is an ongoing epidemic, though well hidden as folk try to continue their lives behind a front of 'normality'.

 

And there is no magic advice one can give: as others here have said, we don't get to fix other people's lives, though the instinct is to try and help.

 

I have never consciously put together any sort of list, but for me it seems to go like this:

 

I try to make sure that people are getting professional help: that they have talked to their GP as a starting place. That can be a very big step, facing the fact that one is mentally ill, and some folk will be pretty sick by the time they can finally take it.

 

I try to talk about what it is like and how much of it there is: to do what I can to normalise it. Perhaps this may help the sick person feel less alone and afraid.

 

I try to talk about the various things that may help, including medication: I don't believe anyone should just jump onto medication, there are some other good things that can be done, but I do believe that medication can sometimes help relieve the degree of suffering in acute situations. I try to combat the idea that the medication is scary.

 

I try to say, as gently as I can, that it does pass.

 

 

[old man emu]

I'm very happy! I've at least started a conversation amongst a group of people who are, hopefully, going to encounter this problem exhibiting itself in others, not themselves. We have shown that we care about our partners in crime here on this site by talking about what makes us happy (flying) and making big efforts to pass on our experiences and well wishes as the case may be.

 

It is obvious that planet47 is an active practitioner in mental health care, and provides sound information from the professional's side. But I think it is incumbent on all of us to learn how to deal with a victim of mental illness. There are more of us laymen than there are professionals.

 

A professional can only deal with a limited number of cases, and for their own mental stability must be professionally stand-offish. They cannot expend the amount of empathy that a friend can. That's where we must learn more about the application of Mental Health First Aid. After all, each of us is more likely to encounter the early expression mental illness than we are to encounter a heart, asthma attack or physical trauma.

 

OME

 

 

[Guest debra stewart]

Discussing the Black Dog (depression/anxiety disorder) is NOT Off Topic. The Black Dog bites each and every one of us. Some it slobbers on. Some it nips. And for others it mauls.As a group consisting mainly of middle to elderly men, our Life experiences have exposed us to this rabid animal. It is our role as elders of our communities to provide advice and counsel to those whom the Black Dog is tracking.

 

We are a powerful group with wide exposure in the community. Let's use our power and exposure to remove the perceived stigma of talking about our feelings and seeking the correct help.

 

In this, we are never on solo flights.

 

Old Man Emu

Hi all, I suffer from OCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and firstly I think we must get health professionals to LISTEN and take seriously what we are saying. I was diagnosed after 40 years of hell, to put it mildly. I was told I was neurotic, just getting old, all in my mind, etc.,etc., I shudder at some of the things that have happened and how close I came to not being here anymore. If just one doctor had taken me seriously maybe it would have been an easier road, albeit back in those days, no-one really knew much about it, so there's the rub.

 

Today, I still cope alone . No-one wants to hear mental illness tales or become involved. Plus, lets be fair, a non-sufferer cannot possibly comprehend the scope of all these issues as they are so complex that even the sufferer has trouble understanding. It can be overwhelming for others.

 

Anyway, thankfully women have one slight advantage over men and thstis that we usually don't mind talking about all these things openly, and I, don't mind shouting it from the rooftops in the hope it may get better for someone else.

 

Now for something lighter. My instructor told me 3 weeks ago that he thought I was ready for solo. I don't think the smile has left my face since. He will send me up on a good day, which hasn't happened yet, but I can be patient. It has taken me nearly 3 years to get my 54 hours up so I am in it for the long haul.. Fears and OCD be damned !

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Some factors: recently discovered significant connection to poor quality diet (gut / brain connection found to work both ways). Also (somewhat lesser) lack of sunlight exposure - which not cured by merely taking D3 pills. Lack of exercise, preferably do high intensity. Lack of faith - no aim or purpose in life.

I would fit everyone of those and yet one of the happiest people you could know.

 

Warning to you all, I was a member of a forum that 'opened up' and the guys that it affected leaned on each other for a bit, became all supportive of each other then as a cliche group would attack anyone else in the forum and destroyed the place.

 

Then of course then there was the Member who was an active Pedofile and was getting support under another guise for his issues - you don't know who is on the end of the monitor so best just mind your own business.

 

 

[Pearo]

Some factors: recently discovered significant connection to poor quality diet (gut / brain connection found to work both ways). Also (somewhat lesser) lack of sunlight exposure - which not cured by merely taking D3 pills. Lack of exercise, preferably do high intensity. Lack of faith - no aim or purpose in life.

Links pls.

 

I am one of the lucky ones, I dont suffer from depression, but I have buried half a dozen mates from it now and know a couple of people who suffer badly from it. I cant even begin to fathom what it must be like, but I have seen it blanket people and it looks truly horrible.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hi all, I suffer from OCD ( Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) ...

Howdy Debs; you only have a mild case. I know people with CDO: the letters must be in AffaBetiC Lorder!

Congrats on your flying progress!

 

 

[flying dog]

Discussing the Black Dog (depression/anxiety disorder) is NOT Off Topic. The Black Dog bites each and every one of us. Some it slobbers on. Some it nips. And for others it mauls.As a group consisting mainly of middle to elderly men, our Life experiences have exposed us to this rabid animal. It is our role as elders of our communities to provide advice and counsel to those whom the Black Dog is tracking.

 

We are a powerful group with wide exposure in the community. Let's use our power and exposure to remove the perceived stigma of talking about our feelings and seeking the correct help.

 

In this, we are never on solo flights.

 

Old Man Emu

OME,

 

Thanks.

 

This has helped me put together a few things and now it is all making sense!

 

I am sure that a lot of us have heard the expression: "Dog's breath" It isn't nice and it is hard to detect it yourself if you are the sufferer, and then there is that awe full (?) feeling when you first wake up in the morning, and it feels like a dog has $hat in your mouth.

 

I now realise what is going on!

 

I seem to have said black dog getting into my place quite often lately and doing just that. Although from the frequency and the fact that other people know of this black dog, I think there must be a few of them, coz I get visitations quite often lately and they are not fun.

 

(end of attempted humorous entry)

 

However, indulge me folks:

 

When that dog bites - me at least - it is not fun. Maybe this is made worse by the fact I am probably a bite sized person and it could probably only need to take one bite to have all of me.

 

I am still seeing HUGE holes in how society deals with said problem. It is more "You are not allowed to do ......" and have to stay alive because you are needed. But the "by whom" is never really explained.

 

From what I see, it is a class system, where the people who have never met this dog (or its family) dictate to us that we have to give the system money to "keep the system working" only to THEIR advantage. When someone can't take it and ....... goes to the extreme (example the young woman in Sydney this week with her 2 year old daughter) do those people scream and carry on and want more money to "pay for the system" and prevent further occurrences.

 

What a lad of crap! They get the money and PRETEND to do things, but only to the limit of keeping themselves safe and not the people who are ALREADY suffering. They don't want to associate with that kind of person/s.

 

The whole thing is you are told "You are important"...... But it is interesting how when the question is then posed to them: To WHOM am I important that a chilling silence is heard.

 

Sure it is up to the individual to have SELF WORTH, and no one else. But the whole bigger picture doesn't support that, although people claim it doesn't.

 

Instead of people being accepted for who they are, they are made to FIT IN with the things/s which are liked by the majority. Sure that is a sort of tribal mentality and we are "tribal people", but to what end?

 

Instead of accepting people's differences (example: Most people like footy team A and I really don't like footy) then I am not accepted.

 

HELLO! IT IS ONLY A GAME! GET OVER IT!

 

As people who have a quirky interest - like flying - we are allowed to fly, but we are constantly controlled in what we can and can't do. Surprisingly this is sometimes good. We have to go through "extreme" testing and the like before we can fly a plane, but there again:

 

These days kids get these new cars and are let lose on the roads and kill people because they are not really skilled in driving. Maybe soon drivers should go through a sort of HUMAN FACTORS course before they can drive.

 

To add insult to injury, the cars are becoming more and more autonimus (spelling?) so it is starnge that people are allowed to buy them and not really understand what is going on. The car has cruise control so it claims to be easier to drive.

 

Sure, until you fall asleep with the cruise control on and kill more people than if you went to sleep, and the car slowed down because you were not pressing the noise pedal.

 

I have a pack of these black dogs living with me just now. It isn't fun, they take their toll on me and I suffer.

 

NO ONE GIVES A $HIT so long as I am....... "controllable" by those who are in the other class and am not making THEIR life/s any worse.

 

I had better stop now, the dog is back at the door scratching its way through.

 

 

[flying dog]

One very important factor, is not to assume you can talk someone out of it. There are various types of depression, some reactive (such as a reaction to a marriage break up), but others involuntary.Places like Lifeline and Beyond Blue have the professionals who can get the person on the road to classifying their particular type of illness, and in many cases medication can get the person back to a normal life. In other cases it may require a clinincal psychologist, and so on.

Sorry, but I beg to differ.

 

AFAIK, Lifeline and Mens line are run by vollies mostly.

 

As much as I admire them for doing what they do - I couldn't - their replies are becoming somewhat "stereo typed".

 

Because of the professional detachment they must observe there are limits to what can and can't be said.

 

And really: If at that point in time you are HANGING FROM A THREAD, the last thing you really want to hear are cliche lines.

 

As a kid I had to deal with basically what the people at Lifeline do, but with people who are OLDER than me. And I had to do it OFTEN! It has really screwed me up, maybe not for doing it, but for the distorted perception of reality I now have, and as "easy" as it is to say/accept/claim it is wrong: To me it is reality, and anything else (though usually better) is merely conceptual.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I would fit everyone of those and yet one of the happiest people you could know.

Terrific, glad to hear you are always happy Bex. These are just some factors to look at for those that suffer from depression or similar. I would still encourage even happy folk to look at these factors though, as you age health becomes ever more important.

 

Links pls.

You'd need to search Pearo as I don't have this on hand but the info is certainly out there. On the first one if you suffer significant stress you can feel physically ill; researchers were surprised to discover recently it works the other way too. Much still to learn about this connection.

 

 

[flying dog]

People need to know that under the NSW Mental Health Act that if a person becomes unwell and there are fears for their safety or for the safety of others from that person that they should be taken to the nearest hospital emergency department. GP's and others can often assist by referral however hospital staff, ambulance and police if necessary can assist the person to hospital for assessment but it is better for the person if they come to the hospital themselves or with a supportive person.

Oh this may be true, but really it is an INSULT to the people suffering.

 

All it is, is the goverment covering their a$$es so they can say "We did our best" and not be held liable.

 

All they offer (and I use that word with caution) is DIS EMPOWERMENT of the person.

 

1 - they fill you full of drugs, so you become sedate and so easier to control.

 

2 - if you still hold your ground they try to put you in hospital because they want to take care of you.

 

That is about the most HUMILIATING THING TO HAVE HAPPEN TO YOU.

 

They CLAIM the drugs help. That depends.

 

Although I understand that you, as the sufferer, may need "time out" from what IS an unending battle and the drugs may allow you time to "recharge" your batteries, KEEPING YOU ON THEM is a LIE!

 

All that is doing is covering the alarms and not addressing the causes. That is no way to fix a problem.

 

You are not dealing with the SITUATION you are in. So they put you in hospital to monitor you.

 

Well, that's a joke.

 

Analogy:

 

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.

 

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

 

So, if you take the person away from things which cause the situation, how are you supposed to work out what it is that is causing the problem?

 

It could be said they want to give you time to "recover" away from the problem, so you can fight it from a better position.

 

Fine in theory, but as I am sure many people will say: Because you run away from the problem, it doesn't mean it will go away. It will be there when you get back, and unless you have been given "tools" to help you deal with the problem then really you are no better off. Just time wasted not fighting and so the problem gets worse in your mind.

 

They will then try to trivialise it and say it won't get worse. That is THEIR OPINION and they are (probably not) qualified to say that.

 

The importance of something is PERSONAL and irrispective of if it is or not, for people to tell you their opinion and say theirs is MORE RIGHT than yours is not a good thing and those people are also probably not qualified to be doing that.

 

 

[flying dog]

Hmmmmm.......

 

Seems I have done a good job in killing this topic.

 

Does anyone think it is reflective of how seriously it is taken?

 

My two (three?) posts were not even CLOSE to things which are happening to me, and by that, I mean the situation is WORSE - and getting worse every ..... (insert time interval here).

 

No, I am really dismayed (spelling?/word?) that honestly at the end of the day, this is EXACTLY what I see. Talk and no real helpful/useful actions taken.

 

It has always puzzled me how people say (after the event) ... "OH, if only I'd known, I would have done something...."

 

That is one of the cheapest cop outs I have heard. If you REALLY care about someone, you do NOT LET IT GET THAT FAR IN THE FIRST PLACE, if you REALLY care about the person.

 

Last part repeated to show the importance of it.

 

And I"m out'a here.

 

us-subscibe button pressed.