"developer faces jail for flying plane"????

[kaz3g]

As someone else mentioned, the normal penalty for manipulating the controls without a licence is 25 points - about $4,500.00 currently, so this incidence must have had serious consequences, which we haven't been made aware of yet.

I'm certainly not going to comment about the particular case which is currently sub judicial but I can comment that the penalty under the CAR for allowing another person who is not a pilot to manipulate the controls is a fine, not imprisonment.

 

The penalty for perjury can be imprisonment and people should be careful to declare everything relevant when making a declaration.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks Kaz , I think you might be a real lawyer , is that right?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Who decides these penalties? The fines seem outrageously large compared to, for example, penalties for dangerous driving- where stuffing up is much more likely to result in in death and injury.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Who decides these penalties? The fines seem outrageously large compared to, for example, penalties for dangerous driving- where stuffing up is much more likely to result in in death and injury.

When I was a kid I went up for a fly with, fortunately an instructor in a Chipmunk.

He said "You can have a fly if you like" and I immediately pulled it into a 90 degree turn, and saw the sky, the ground, the sky, huge forces, half blacked out. Didn't know which way was up and still wouldn't without training.

 

Facthunter could probably tell you the skills required to get out of that, but 90% of our regulars would dig a big hole in the ground.

 

 

[coljones]

This story makes me feel sick. I would do terrible things to the prosecutors if I could.

The article was in a NewsLtd publication. While the paper's management would cover up a developer "having a go" on a 747 because he was a developer and developers are the salt of the earth, wonderful people, god is on their side and they can do no harm maybe the journo felt the need to tell a bit of the story, something about ethics. Some people are incapable of chewing gum and walking - some are just incapable of even chewing gum, some people give a gun to a child and some people hand over controls of an aeroplane to whoever.

 

 

[coljones]

What I hate is the destruction of our freedoms as we lurch towards a police state under the guise of "safety"."Live free or die" is not my original thought, but it sums up my attitude these days.

I reckon we owe it to those forbears who fought against fascists to resist this sort of encroachment.

 

The next thing will be to ban owner maintenance of aircraft.

Yes, I know what you are saying - f#%%#%!!ing anti pushbike laws. Duncan Gay - you are a tool!!!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

When I was a kid I went up for a fly with, fortunately an instructor in a Chipmunk.He said "You can have a fly if you like" and I immediately pulled it into a 90 degree turn, and saw the sky, the ground, the sky, huge forces, half blacked out. Didn't know which way was up and still wouldn't without training.

Facthunter could probably tell you the skills required to get out of that, but 90% of our regulars would dig a big hole in the ground.

Yep, all possible, but it sounds like the penalty could be equally applied when a pilot allows a gentle "hands on" at altitude. That surely carries far less risk than having a moron on our busy roads.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well you can certainly plead your case, and maybe you'll get less than the 25 points but it's still a "conviction" which causes all sorts of problems if you want to go overseas or take office etc.

 

You also missed my point, which I admit was poorly put.

 

The instructor that day only knew me as a neighbour, the kid next door. He wasn't to know I'd been up with my uncle a few weeks earlier when he had pulled a Tiger Moth into a 90 deg turn.

 

The point is this could be your next door neighbour; you don't know what he/she is going to do, how he/she is going to react, and PC or PPL training has not prepared you with methods on how to handle the situation.

 

It's a bit like Russian Roulette 99 out of hundred passengers may very well behave themselves, but the hundredth might take you down.

 

Often qualified pilots are the most dangerous, even in rag and tube, when on one occasion two pilots fought each other for the controls on landing all the way down to the ground where they were killed.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Some twenty years ago as a reasonably experienced pilot I was doing a flight review in an Aerobat and the instructor said "show me a stall". For some reason I thought he meant show me a spin entry so on the point of stall I gave it a boot full of rudder. He was not amused.

 

 

[Bats]

Seems that the gent who was originally cited here is allegedly a repeat offender and the offence being investigated involved substantially more than merely manipulating the controls under supervision.

 

As for the rest of the fanciful guff, some people would want an EIS, SWM and the rest of the BS TLA's before you were trusted to tie your own shoe laces, it would seem.

 

 

[turboplanner]

In the light of what Kaz mentioned a few posts ago just be careful what you post about any named individual who may be involved in this case, or any details of previous cases.

 

 

[Oscar]

Some years ago now, a guy who lived in a converted shed on our farm ( long story..) had a small road traffic accident. When the Police got things sorted, it turned out he only held a Ukranian driving licence, issued in 1946... and he'd been driving in Australia since about 1948, when he emigrated here.

 

There is a fairly well-authenticated story, of a case where an order for a new Cessna 172 elevator was sent to Rex Aviation at Bankstown - then the Cessna agents. There wasn't enough information on the order for them to identify the correct part, so they got onto DCA (the forebear of CASA at that time) for further information. DCA couldn't trace any aircraft to the owner or location - a Station somewhere near where NSW, Qld, SA and NT meet.. So, they had one of their Inspectors drop in when passing by. What followed, I would not believe as anything but urban myth, except for the fact that a family member was working at DCA at the time and had been involved in trying to track down what actual Cessna it was. You need to place in perspective here: this was the era when Australia 'rode on the sheep's back', and HUGE wool cheques were not uncommon - in good years.

 

He duly landed at the Station home strip and saw a 172 tied down, with a bent elevator. A cheerful station owner came out to greet the Inspector. 'I'm from DCA', said the Inspector. "Great - Dingo Control Authority - I need to talk to you guys' was the response.

 

The story was: this Station owner had been at the Birdsville races quite a few years before, and had placed a large side-bet with a mate on the outcome of a race. He won; the mate didn't have the cash, but handed over the key(s??) to his 172, and the Owners Manual. The winner had gone back home, read up the manual, cleared a simple strip out the front of the Homestead and several weeks later drove back up there and flew it back home. He'd operated it for something like 8 years - never off the station - for stock/fence etc. inspection - when one day, he taxied in near the tank stand where he usually tied it down and it rolled back in the wind, hit the tank stand and bent the elevator. His Avgas came in on the same truck with the diesel and everything else, from Broken Hill.

 

The DCA Inspector informed him that he would HAVE to place the aircraft back on the register, but stated that he would ( and did) arrange for a PPL to be issued to the owner.

 

Those were the days when DCA (or DoT, morphing into CASA) actually worked with the aviation community, instead of against it.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Seems like someone might have been a very naughty boy...

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2012/656.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=Roostam Sadri

 

The sting is in the tail which mentions something about a false declaration.

 

Worth reading in full, I think, because the Regulator appears to have been pretty reasonable in the early stages while the respondent would appear to have been his own (and the rest of the flying fraternity's) worst enemy.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thus informed, I hereby withdraw my criticism of the regulator; sounds like this pillock was a danger to himself and others.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

WOW... thanks Kaz.. I just read through that quite extraordinary link and for once CASA action has given me a warm and fuzzy feeling..

 

 

[cooperplace]

very interesting reading, I concur with Kaz's comments.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Must be frustrating for the CASA guys when they encounter a complete w..ker.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree he was a wanker but the punishments are all grossly excessive, the fines are way too much and the imprisonment idea disgraceful. Gosh CASA is being deceptive by having the word "safety" in its title.

 

A good measure of the worth of any society is the lack of obscene punishment.

 

Here's an example... in WW1, the English executed lots of their own soldiers while Australia executed none. Which country was the best?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... in WW1, the English executed lots of their own soldiers while Australia executed none. Which country was the best?

Completely off topic: Aussie soldiers had volunteered to be there; many English had been forced into the ranks. Which had the better reason for deserting/cowardice/logical behaviour?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I agree he was a wanker but the punishments are all grossly excessive, the fines are way too much and the imprisonment idea disgraceful. Gosh CASA is being deceptive by having the word "safety" in its title.A good measure of the worth of any society is the lack of obscene punishment.

Here's an example... in WW1, the English executed lots of their own soldiers while Australia executed none. Which country was the best?

No point in making your judgement before the current case is even heard.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yes Old Koreelah, After 3 days of marching around the salt-flats of Suvla Bay with no water, many English soldiers started to stumble and lag behind. They were shot for this cowardice. This is all on the record.

 

And Turbs, I still reckon the prosecutors should be calling for the rule-breaker to be sentenced to copying out the regulations as a punishment if found guilty. Justice demands that the punishment fit the crime.

 

 

[Yenn]

The British gave one of their officers a Victoria Cross for shooting some of his men.

 

Great country, great army. I should know I was in it.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

it turned out he only held a Ukranian driving licence, issued in 1946... and he'd been driving in Australia since about 1948, when he emigrated here.

This is practically the norm for Asian students. I know one who has been here for about 6 years & still on a Chinese license including doing commercial interstate deliveries. Others are driving taxis & only have an Indian license.

 

And you know what? I tend to agree with Bruce here it doesn't seem to matter much. Not seen a big spate of accidents. Bureaucrats made our system so difficult to legitimately get a drivers license (75 hours on L's etc) I don't blame them at all.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I know one who has been here for about 6 years & still on a Chinese license including doing commercial interstate deliveries.

I am quite anti-dobbing, but seriously, if he has an accident then the people he hurts will likely have to foot their own bills due to lack of insurance.

 

Tell him to stop, get the proper licence or put him in.

 

Bureaucrats made our system so difficult to legitimately get a drivers license (75 hours on L's etc) I don't blame them at all.

Are you even serious? They can come from another country and you support their ignoring of our laws because it doesn't suit them?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yes Bex, if you had ever dealt with the South Australian dept of Transport you would understand Gnarly saying that.

 

Just last week there was a Vic road transport company looking at setting up in South Australia but they gave up. The bureaucrats were too awful. I understand your move to China from these guys alone.