OUCH ! Engine failure ?

[SGIAN DUBH]

Indeed - and his previous trike was G-KEVS

Kasper, G-KEVS was never Kev Armstrong's ( Kev Mallin owned that from new in 2007 & sold it in late 2011 ) Kev Mallin got G-KEVZ as the replacement for G-KEVS

 

Kev Armstrong had G-FFIT as the registration on his Quik between 2007 & 2010 then he went to SSDR machines with G-MGIC on his 1st Ace SSDR & then G-KEVA on his latest one ( which is the crash aircraft ).

 

 

[K-man]

Just a question from someone who knows nothing about trikes. It would seem the rate of descent was more than 1000' per minute and the landing speed around 60mph. Would that be optimal in an engine out situation and what would be the rate of descent and approach speed normally? How much control do you have over speed and ROD without power?

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Or hit that manor house it looked like he overflew the gardens of.

There is a saying " Everyone is a Plumber until you turn the water back on "

 

Kev is a pretty good pilot & he isn't daft ( even though he hails from Ferret land ) so I would be convinced he did make rational decisions right up until the impact ;-)

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Just a question from someone who knows nothing about trikes. It would seem the rate of descent was more than 1000' per minute and the landing speed around 60mph. Would that be optimal in an engine out situation and what would be the rate of descent and approach speed normally? How much control do you have over speed and ROD without power?

I am sure he could have made a slower approach & had a far lower ROD if he had wanted to, however Kev was hyped up having just seized the engine & from what I read elsewhere he knows himself that he didn't get the best options in his choice, but saying that I would have probably made 80% of the same decisions in the same situation ( I would have stayed away from the tree on the last turn before touchdown & not momentarily aimed at the Manor House ) All very easy to say after the incident though.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I am sure he could have made a slower approach & had a far lower ROD if he had wanted to, however Kev was hyped up having just seized the engine & from what I read elsewhere he knows himself that he didn't get the best options in his choice, but saying that I would have probably made 80% of the same decisions in the same situation ( I would have stayed away from the tree on the last turn before touchdown & not momentarily aimed at the Manor House ) All very easy to say after the incident though.

Hiya Ian,. . . I looked at the video arround 9 times,. . and at the final impact point the indicated speed on the right hand panel was between 56 and 57,. . . this altered from 47 earlier, so it is possible that he landed with a bit of a tailwind component, but as we all know ( well, those of us who have experienced multiple engine failures in silly non-certified aerial appliances anyway ) that things can become exciting if there is not much height to play with when it goes quiet, and if you feel that the landing options are a little none friendly.

 

These are high stress moments; few pilots can say with honesty that they would have done this, or that . . . as you point out and we already know, armchair hindsight. . .etc. . . . Me ?.. . .well, following a dead ignition coil in my Gemini Flash 2, I've landed in a bloody tight field, with my non-pilot passenger constantly tapping on my left arm, and me waving my hand in dismissal, thinking, . .Not now sweeetheart, I'm a bit busy. . . . ( intercom failure ) when the passenger was trying to tell me that she had seen an orange windsock in a field not 1/4 mile to my left, behind a small stand of trees. . . . . Tunnel vision ?

 

Yes,. . . 56 / 57 MPH is quite a velocity when you come to a sudden stop, much decelleration force. Lucky lad. Sounds as if you actually KNOW the daft bugger,. . . I only chat to him on numerous forums, BMAA, . . . Microlight Flying, . . Fizzogbook . . . etc. . . Lovely bloke, being the owner of a very incisive engineering mind. . . .

 

In any event, I hope that the trike had some hull insurance. . . he's back on FB now, posting stuff about magic magnetic engines and diggers getting stuck in the mud etc. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Hiya Ian,. . . I looked at the video around 9 times,. . and at the final impact point the indicated speed on the right hand panel was between 56 and 57,. . . this altered from 47 earlier, so it is possible that he landed with a bit of a tailwind component, but as we all know ( well, those of us who have experienced multiple engine failures in silly non-certified aerial appliances anyway ) that things can become exciting if there is not much height to play with when it goes quiet, and if you feel that the landing options are a little none friendly.Yes,. . . 56 / 57 MPH is quite a velocity when you come to a sudden stop, much decelleration force. Lucky lad. Sounds as if you actually KNOW the daft bugger,. . . I only chat to him on numerous forums, BMAA, . . . Microlight Flying, . . Fizzogbook . . . etc. . . Lovely bloke, being the owner of a very incisive engineering mind. . . .

In any event, I hope that the trike had some hull insurance. . . he's back on FB now, posting stuff about magic magnetic engines and diggers getting stuck in the mud etc. . . .

 

Phil

Hiya Phil, Now this reply is going to fun ;-) So much fun I am going relish this message :

Firstly, My name isn't Ian ;-)

 

I have also watched the video around 9 to 100 times & was more concerned by the momentary 12g that was recorded on the G meter at impact than the 57mph impact speed.

 

Yes I do actually KNOW the daft bugger,..... in fact I even KNOW the daft bugger who just called me " Ian "

 

To give you a few clues, I think you once referred to me as the Highest Paid Aviation Lawyer that has ever visited Otherton, you also referred to me as the fastest person you have seen shift a haybale from the side of the Runway at Otherton........ there is a bigger Spectrum to my life ;-)

 

C'mon Phil.......You must know me ;-)

 

 

[kasper]

Yes Pete, we all know you ... and like myself you can also talk about the plane that could not fly away after arriving

 

 

[Blueadventures]

From the look of how the cloud shadows were moving, did he land with a bit of a tail wind? As said before, there were a whole lot of other options, but we can only say that in hindsight. I don't know if I'd do any better when the adrenaline starts pumping. I remember in my emergency training selecting what looked like a very smooth field to land in from 2000ft, only to find at about 500ft that it was a bit rough, but I was committed. You can't go changing your mind when you have no altitude, so you have to see it through. I'm glad he is ok.The video is priceless, watching it got me thinking of my emergency training.

I agree the video is great sharing.

 

I see there are two power lines showing the direction of the wires (pause the video near its end) that would account for the veer to left at the end to avoid the power lines that ended up bowling over the low scrub.

 

The comments re airspeed in other threads should alow fr the lag in the AIS indicated reading.

 

Certinaly an acceptable outcome.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

[Teckair]

and at the final impact point the indicated speed on the right hand panel was between 56 and 57,. . . this altered from 47 earlier, so it is possible that he landed with a bit of a tailwind component,Phil

Hey Phil he might have landed with a tail wind but that does not affect the indicated airspeed just the ground speed. It is easy to criticize but he walked away and some pea-brains call that a good landing.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Yes Pete, we all know you ... and like myself you can also talk about the plane that could not fly away after arriving

I know who it is now Kasper,. . .actually the "Ian" was a typo . . .I mised the SG as I type too bloody fast. I would never deliberately "Out" a commenter using a screen name, it isn't nice, if folks wish to remain anon, then that's fine by me, I use them on Non-flying blogs to preclude the chance of someone kicking the side of my head in for my political opinions, now that I am unable to run as fast as I used to.

 

Hiya Phil, Now this reply is going to fun ;-) So much fun I am going relish this message :Firstly, My name isn't Ian ;-) )

Explained above yer bloody larrikin.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Hey Phil he might have landed with a tail wind but that does not affect the indicated airspeed just the ground speed. It is easy to criticize but he walked away and some pea-brains call that a good landing.

I was actually remarking with regard to the airspeed variation whilst Kev was looking for a landing spot Teck,. . .I am actually aware of the V-speed differences. - Clumsy writing fuelled by a certain Barossa Valley product.

 

And I am not criticizing anything. Having been there dun that on at least seven assorted occasions over the years,. . . but I was carrying my St. Christopher in my Ozee suit pocket, . . . so only managed to destroy two wheel spats and five tyres.

 

Phil.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Yes Pete, we all know you ... and like myself you can also talk about the plane that could not fly away after arriving

"We all know you" ? ? I doubt that,. . .not on this site cobber. Only us Poms, Brazilians,. .Sed Effrikens,. .Saudi Arabians. . .etc. . . .

 

Well, we will soon now that this prolific blog commentator has found our little hidey hole !

 

Welcome Peter.

 

Phil.

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Yes Pete, we all know you ... and like myself you can also talk about the plane that could not fly away after arriving

Kasper,

 

You have the advantage on me because I don't have a clue who you are ;-)

 

As to the reference to : " and like myself you can also talk about the plane that could not fly away after arriving " I am sure you are talking about a certain X-Air?

 

There is a saying " You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs " On that day I made a mess of said omelette....... not bad considering how many other omelettes have came out perfect ;-)

 

 

[kasper]

Well Peter think about BMAA elections (you've tried a few) and you'll recall me as a winner in one of them ;-)

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

I agree the video is great sharing.I see there are two power lines showing the direction of the wires (pause the video near its end) that would account for the veer to left at the end to avoid the power lines that ended up bowling over the low scrub.

 

The comments re airspeed in other threads should alow fr the lag in the AIS indicated reading.

 

Certinaly an acceptable outcome.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

The Speed is GPS related so I think the lag is a millisecond....much the same as 12g was a millisecond....... I must look at the video again to see the cables.... now starting to think Kev was giving a lot more thought to this than just plonking it down wherever it happened.

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

Well Peter think about BMAA elections (you've tried a few) and you'll recall me as a winner in one of them ;-)

Ah Hello Kirk ;-) The "Shoehorned into a position on Council " after it was announced that both Rick Goddin & I were duly elected ;-)

Probably the best thing that has happened to me was you getting elected ;-) I had a lucky escape ( dodged a bullet springs to mind )

 

Anyway this is far removed from the BMAA so let's not reflect on the pettiness of them, the BMAA have no place now in my day to day life, the BHPA have my best interests at heart when it comes to SSDR.

 

Good to hear from you again ;-)

 

 

[kasper]

Ah Hello Kirk ;-) The "Shoehorned into a position on Council " after it was announced that both Rick Goddin & I were duly elected ;-)Probably the best thing that has happened to me was you getting elected ;-) I had a lucky escape ( dodged a bullet springs to mind )

 

Anyway this is far removed from the BMAA so let's not reflect on the pettiness of them, the BMAA have no place now in my day to day life, the BHPA have my best interests at heart when it comes to SSDR.

 

Good to hear from you again ;-)

bit unfair to say shoehorned onto council ... but yes, RAAus is not the only flying org that has a history of ignoring their own rules ... and when one candidates nomination is ignored and that candidate is a solicitor the exec can pretty quickly discover that the rules and members have bite

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

bit unfair to say shoehorned onto council ... but yes, RAAus is not the only flying org that has a history of ignoring their own rules ... and when one candidates nomination is ignored and that candidate is a solicitor the exec can pretty quickly discover that the rules and members have bite

Kirk,

I am fully aware of the Deception & Malpractice that the Rats on the BMAA Sinking Ship can stoop to.

 

I was not at all surprised when in the last BMAA Elections the Deception tactics were put into play again ;-)

 

It has IMHO backfired on them.... just before the Election they co-opted Spencer Harvey ( in a veiled attempt to stop me getting elected by reducing the number of places from 4 to 3 ) so Spencer has to stand in the election this year. Their idea was to ensure that Dave B & Rob G will be re-elected ( by hook or by crook ) & then have Deepak M & Rick fighting for 3rd place, it all went very wrong when Deepak swept the board with the highest amount of votes with Dave B trailing behind by 22 votes & then Rob G coming 32 votes behind DB.

 

I have no doubt that they should have left it at 4 spaces as I believe they thought Deepak would have came 4th or 5th, I know you weren't keen on Rick but I think the BMAA is now sinking faster now he is ousted.

 

Will I ever stand again? I might out of devilment but only because I know it gives Dave B sleepless nights ;-)

 

I am in a bit of a Quandary because I have a part share in a CFM Streak Shadow that is based where 'Grim' flys from & the Majority shareholder in the Streak is about to embark on an epic trip with Deepak soon in an Electric Pipistrel.

 

 

[Teckair]

And I am not criticizing anything.

That comment was not aimed at you but others who said there were so many better options. My guess is some of the people who reckon it could have been done better are probably right but when was the last time they did it better?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think the hedge did it.

 

I wonder if he did everything right, even dodging the power lines, and just found himself with that do I? or don't I jump the hedge?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I think the hedge did it.I wonder if he did everything right, even dodging the power lines, and just found himself with that do I? or don't I jump the hedge?

I hope that I don't HAVE to make that decision again Turbo,. . . . Hedges often contain nasty pieces of timber with rusty barbed wire strung between them . . .

 

I found that the employment of Four Stroke powerplants assist greatly in reducing the chances of the above scenario being operationally neccessary. . .

 

Phil.

 

 

[kasper]

I hope that I don't HAVE to make that decision again Turbo,. . . . Hedges often contain nasty pieces of timber with rusty barbed wire strung between them . . .I found that the employment of Four Stroke powerplants assist greatly in reducing the chances of the above scenario being operationally neccessary. . .

 

Phil.

But Phil - this was a four stroke :-(

 

 

[SGIAN DUBH]

I think the hedge did it.I wonder if he did everything right, even dodging the power lines, and just found himself with that do I? or don't I jump the hedge?

The simple answer is : " Yes, He did it right "

Maybe I am over-analyzing this from the comfort of a relaxed position on a soft sofa, (which is something Kev didn't have during that flight) so I am convinced "he did it right"

 

 

 

In the video @ 1m45 he is at 302ft QNH having descended from 378ft QNH @1m40 to 329ft QNH @ 1m43. A turn around the tree @ 1m46 at 283ft QNH to establish himself on final approach to his impending arrival spot looked (from the comfort of a sofa looked to be extremely close to the branches ) @ 1m48 at 250ft QNH he was fully established on final & committed to what was about to unravel...... 2seconds later @1m50 he was 224ft QNH & possibly sensing " I am nearly there !!! @ 1m51 the impact with the bushels was imminent and at this point with 61mph of groundspeed I think ( from the comfort of a sofa ) I would have converted a bit of speed for a bit of height to clear the bushels ( Note it is an opinion based on hindsight & not what I might have done if in Kev's position at that time, at that exact time I strongly believe I would have done exactly what Kev did. )

 

 

 

The interesting point is throughout the entire final section of the video a 9% descent profile was set up ( which looks to resemble a 948fpm descent rate or 15.8fps )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil Perry]

But Phil - this was a four stroke :-(

But Kasper. . . . .

 

None of MINE were. . . . . ( was not referring to Kev's ) Please stop criticising my sloppy discombobulated writing style, or I shall become triggered and head for my safe space.

 

 

[kasper]

But Kasper. . . . .None of MINE were. . . . . ( was not referring to Kev's ) Please stop criticising my sloppy discombobulated writing style, or I shall become triggered and head for my safe space.

Fair call.

Mine have all been mixed - stopping for fun and no apparent reason seems to be a 2stroke thing - the four stroke had a reason - even though it was more spectacular.