rotax rip off

[Guest fly]

Hi to all;

 

geezus, I just got the fright of my life

 

Rebuilding my T500; thought ...... the muffler looks Ok and solid on outside but a bit of flaking rust coming out of it, 1/2 cup after a good bang and shake.

 

Ah! well give Bert Flood a ring quote please on standard straight muffler, no mounting brackets or hooks for springs mind you ...... extra

 

I thinks a couple of hundred should cover it...........

 

Geezus...........$646.00 .@#*^$#* hell your joking!!!! It's only a muffler!!

 

I wont go into the quote on the other bits

 

Any one know a good suitable after market supplier............geezus Welcome to the world of rebuilding...........

 

FLY

 

 

[Captain]

Fly,

 

 

 

Give Brian Stockman a call at Stockman Superkarts/Tamworth Kart Supplies in Tamworth 6765 9310. He has been making 2 stroke racing pipes (expansion chambers and mufflers) for me for Rotax's, Kawasaki's and Honda's for years and specialises in 2 stroke dyno tuning and pipes. He can make you a copy of your original and it will be very well & precisely made.

 

 

 

Not sure what his latest prices are though, so give him a call and let us know how you go. Tell him that the "Big Dog" referred you to him.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[PaulN]

Hi Fly,

 

I recently needed to upgrade the starter on my 912ULS to the newer HD unit for better starting in the cold. Price from BF was $1218 plus freight. I ended up sourcing it from Lockwoods in Florida for AUS$448 incl freight. Makes you wonder. Maybe give them an email and see how you go?

 

Paul

 

BTW I have a working order older starter motor available if anyone's looking for one.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Fly,

 

You may be being a bit oversensitive perhaps. If your outer case is OK then give the thing a good shake rattle and roll flush and see what comes out of it.

 

Re-prime and protect the case and exhaust pipes/manifold and stick her back on - should look like a bought one.

 

As an aside - Yup individual Rotax prices are through the roof. Your prices quoted are very interesting - considering you get a complete new exhaust assembly with any new Rotax motor you buy.

 

The general trend seems to be to encourage people to buy new engines - there is very little financially to be gained from a zero hour rebuild on one..

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest disperse]

It's amazing how high a price can go...... when the supplier feels they have a captive market......

 

Seriously ....... rotax and there importers a MAKING A MOTSER.

 

and its a bl^^dy joke......... BRING ON MORE COMPETITION

 

 

[Ultralights]

Aircraft spruce is your friend, not only that, the strong Aussie $$ makes buying from the US direct a much more attractive option.. oh, and thank god for the internet.

 

 

[Vorticity]

I'll second the opinion on aircraft spruce! I have been chasing a bunch of different things for my plane. It become very disheartening when a US supplier has the item you want, an easy system to order it and gets it to me in Toowoomba quicker then an Australian supplier. :;)1:

 

 

[facthunter]

Rebuild costs.

 

When you get a new engine, you get new muffler, carbs,(the lot) You should think carefully before you start to do a comprehensive rebuild, as you will not get value for money. If some residual value in the old motor could be established, you would not think of doing a rebuild. (Start a class of racing hydroplanes based on the Rotax 582 and your problems will be solved)ie. sell the timexpired ones...Nev.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

It is worth taking a more even overview of this situation and using some trend history as well. This will be from my own operating perspective and simplified to contain space.

 

A probable reasonable sequence of events is as follows:

 

• The Ultralight movement pressed Rotax motors into flying service and these were not motors designed for the purpose (they were primarily used in snowmobiles).
   
   
  
• The motors began failing but Rotax saw a big market and responded by increased R & D – producing very reliable, affordable, high power, low weight engines that really have little established market competition.
   
   
  
• The motors were relatively simple and are easily worked on. However some components require specialist workshop tooling (particularly the very important crank that has to go into a certain press for correct and reliable assembly).
   
   
  
• The buyer market did not respond and began doing back yard engine rebuilds and, in conjunction with indifferent maintenance and operations, caused otherwise needless engine failures – thereby continuing to impact on the reliability perception of the motors.
   
   
  
• Rotax responded by retaining the 300 hr TBO (probably for liability reasons) despite routine maintenance and operations proving the engines could go to about 1000 hrs. They also embargoed sales of crankshaft, conrod parts and would only sell complete units, which in turn gave them more assured reputation protection. And the combined price went up a bit.
   
   
  
• At this point (about five years ago) you could buy a nearly complete new 582 for about $4500 and what parts did not come with the motor you could transfer from your retiring motor. These were the main cooling system, engine backplate, the electric starter motor and gearbox.
   
   
  
• You could have one professionally rebuilt to zero hours for about $2,500. The whole scene at the time was not cheap but was a viable proposition for a small school – which in turn kept affordable flying available to grass roots AUF members.
   
   
  
• Then came a major change. Rotax decided to axe all of the Oz Rotax agents and appoint a single agent. This left people like Richard Eacott of Boonah in the lurch and I personally felt was a dirty move. Richard has amazingly high standards, a well equipped engine shop and a wealth of knowledge that he will share freely with you. In addition he paid for at least two trips to Austria to attend factory courses so he was right up to speed. This was exactly the professional standards and dedication we so desperately needed, still do and always will do. Richard does continue working to his high standards – but at the new much higher component prices that resulted from the monopoly that was then established.
   
   
  
• Almost concurrent with the agent “rationalisationâ€Â, prices of spares shot up. A new 582 costs around the $6500 mark and a complete installation (that includes the parts listed above) takes the cost to around $9,000 – and that was a couple of years ago when I did the last one.
   
   
  
• The increase in spare parts prices for a full rebuild and labour left you only about $400 better off. That just about triples the price of getting a school aircraft going again and impacts on consequent sell-out prices to students. At a 300 hr TBO either new or rebuild options are unviable compared to the sensible prices that they could be and not long ago once were.
   
  

 

Finally, I do not think we should just point a finger at Rotax and it’s agents. Irresponsible behaviour by our own membership and the attitudes towards training in and control of, the airworthiness area have been significant contributors also.

 

Whether my views are right or wrong that certainly was my perception over many years of R582 operation and dealing with most aspects of that area of the industry.

 

Tony

 

 

[facthunter]

Costs of engine use.( overview)

 

Thanks Tony, can't and wouldn't want to disagree with any of that whatsoever. The point where we are at now is where we can predict fairly accurately , what we are up for for LEGAL engine time...

 

1. It looks as though the 912 series Rotax has a life of 1200 Hrs and require to be zero-timed at a cost of something like 19K.

 

2.The 582 has a life of 300 hrs, and you are up for ,say,7K.

 

3. The life of a Cont. 0-200 is 2400 hrs and the zero time O/H cost is about 24K.

 

4. I don't know the life & overhaul cost of a Jabiru,(Legal)But I'm sure someone can provide the figures.

 

Then the cost per hour that has to be allowed for the engine overhaul/replacement is ( by my calc's) 1.19/12 =15.8$ 2. 7000/300 = 23.3 3. (????) 4.

 

24000/2400 = 10.0 $.

 

This does not take into account recurrent servicing, or any failure prior to the max allowed TBO. But it is a bit of an eye-opener and shows the serious effect of the low factory stipulated TBO for the two-stroke Rotax. Nev..

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

My sympathy to Rotax owners

 

You can understand from these stories why I personally chose and continue to sing the praises of the old Subaru EA81. The gyro flyers were first to pick them up, and gave (and still give!) them a hiding. Do they give trouble? Very rarely, and usually through external conversion components rather than the Subaru core. Best of all, just over 600 Oz dollars buys all parts for a rebuild, should you be unfortunate enough to need them. TBO is yet to be decided- wait until one wears out!

 

 

[Thruster Bob]

Hello Paul N

 

Do you have a website for "lockwoods in florida" I can't seem to google it up.

 

Cheers, bobT

 

PS, OOPS ignore this post, I had "pages from Australia" selected on Google.

 

Here it is for anyone else who is interested : http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/store/home.php?cat=249