Radio frequencies

[kaz3g]

How many of them do you think have VHF coverage with centre on the ground......

What's it matter?

 

I find most have vhf coverage at altitude and ATC are happy to take the call..

 

Kaz

 

 

[ian00798]

There are decent chunks of Australia where you won't get VHF below 5000ft

 

 

[nathan_c]

I think what Ian means is that in the case of blocking the area frequency or cancelling a sartime in the circuit, alot of airfields dont have VHF coverage on the ground or in the circuit once you get away from capital centres. Thats definitely the case for the airspace I work, and thats not an insignificant portion of Australia. I cant actually remember the last time I heard a circuit call on area except for pilots forgetting to switch radios after talking to me.

 

 

[aro]

Plenty of people flying into unmarked strips, I guess they are all on 126.7 or not making calls.

 

 

[aro]

But thats the thing, there should not be any confusion about this.... It is listed in black and white in the AIP what we are supposed to be doing. If people read the documents we wouldnt have an issue.The reason there is confusion and the reason we have people doing and suggesting other methods, is because they either havnt read the documentation so they dont know the rules in the first place (which is a serious safety issue) or they think they know better or think it should be how it used to be etc (which is another serious safety issue.)

Funny you should say that...

 

Up until recently (a few years ago) the rules were that if a discrete frequency hadn't been assigned, you should use 126.7.

 

Then someone at CASA decided they knew better and things should be how they used to be 10? 20? years ago and issued a CAAP saying that people should be using Area.

 

Various people pointed out that the CAAP contradicted what the rules in AIP actually said. Eventually after a bit of argument about marked/unmarked strips, CASA got the rules changed in AIP to match the CAAP.

 

THEN they issued a discussion paper asking for feedback...

 

 

[ian00798]

Plenty of people flying into unmarked strips, I guess they are all on 126.7 or not making calls.

No, it means they are likely below the VHF radio horizon and as such ATC can't hear the broadcasts, as is the case at many aerodromes across Australia. I'm going to suggest something pretty wild here in that I'm going to suggest looking at an aeronautical chart, but pull out the PCA and have a look at the VHF coverage on the chart. There are large chunks of Australia where you won't get centre on VHF until you are at 10000 feet or higher.

 

 

[Cosmick]

We are 5 pages into this discussion, and very interesting it is, I wonder if anyone has decided to change their procedure.

 

 

[facthunter]

Not cancelling your sartime obviously causes costs, and inconvenience.. Plenty of places with j VHF radio you won't get through on the ground because of line of sight effect and there may be no mobile signal either. It's common to have incidents in the landing phase and coverage of this aspect is desired. Any thoughts? Nev

 

 

[ian00798]

Satphone, HF, relay through someone else....

 

 

[apm]

Not cancelling your sartime obviously causes costs, and inconvenience.. Plenty of places with j VHF radio you won't get through on the ground because of line of sight effect and there may be no mobile signal either. It's common to have incidents in the landing phase and coverage of this aspect is desired. Any thoughts? Nev

On a multi leg flight which includes landing at a remote strip with no communications, it is possible to set your sartime for when you will come into radio range on a subsequent leg, cancel sartime then lodge a new sartime for current leg. Not ideal, but better than cancelling before landing. If the remote landing is your last for the day, probably best to carry a satphone.

 

 

[facthunter]

As you say, you can nominate any time you wish, as long as you cancel by that time. The more you relate it to a place the more effective it will be if you come to grief, to facilitate the search. Nev

 

 

[nathan_c]

Yep as has been said, if you truly can not get any vhf coverage, sat phone coverage, hf coverage or a relay through other aircraft, then read up on setting a sartime for departure if you are departing for another aerodrome.

 

Effectively it means you can cancel sarwatch in the cruise approaching your top of descent (or preferably as close to arriving at the aerodrome as you can while still having vhf coverage), nominate a sartime for departure that will allow you to land, depart and climb back into vhf coverage and if you don't call back up then sar actions will be initiated (not as exact as calling on the ground, but they can at least start looking from your top of descent to destination, and then out along your next planned leg).