CASA and GO PRO - internal and external mounting legislation

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

Hey guys, can any of you point me towards the legislation regarding the mounting of gopro cameras inside and outside of the cockpit. Couldn't find any info on the CASA website regarding this.

 

Thanks, Rich

 

 

[Nobody]

There was some discussion back here:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/do-you-need-approval-by-anyone-in-australia.140018/#post-519951

 

CASA class it as a modification needing approval in accordance with their normal approval process. It isnt user friendly.

 

It is described for all modifications here:

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/file/151936/download?token=MSIynbVt

 

They have this draft AC but it is still a draft.

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/files/net351/f/_assets/main/lib100227/draftac23-1-0.pdf

 

Edit:

 

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around....

 

You asked for the rules, What CASA doesn't know about cant hurt anybody...

 

 

[shags_j]

Till you land and get ramp checked...

 

 

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

I presume from a legal standpoint it's OK to mount gopros inside the cockpit?

 

 

[Happyflyer]

FWIW, my understanding is that nothing permanent can be mounted inside without an engineering order. Temporary mounts such as suction cups are okay as long as they are not there for take off and landing.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Personally, I wouldn't use suction mounts, they too easily become loose and become missiles in the cockpit, and why risk damaging your camera. The bolt down ones are better, make sure they do not impede the view or interfere with any of the aircraft controls...

 

I generally let my passenger be in charge of the camera operation whilst I get on with the job of flying the plane. If I'm alone, I set it up, start it up, and get on with the job of flying and forget about it until after shutdown. I know this is about legislation, but that's my common sense two cents worth put in.

 

 

[gandalph]

What CASA doesn't know about cant hurt anybody...

Till you land and get ramp checked...

Or until you post the video on You-Tube and become your very own witness for the prosecution...

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Or until you post the video on You-Tube and become your very own witness for the prosecution...

"my back seat passenger was holding the camera your honour", "what do you mean I don't have a back seat, well who was holding it then" ?

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

I'm not sure if the question should be 'has anyone been written up or spoken to by CASAaa for using a GoPro?

 

I've seen mounts on wings, dash combing and all sorts of places - even on helmets. I've never seen or heard of anyone being spoken to about them. That could be that internal mounted ones are quickly removed in time before being seen ..

 

 

[Nobody]

A lot of commercial joyflight operators have gone through the approval process at great expense. For them it makes business sense.

 

 

[facthunter]

They should be encouraged. When you stuff it up you have your own black box to throw light on your predicament, and we all get to know what happened. Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

.... I've never seen or heard of anyone being spoken to about them. That could be that internal mounted ones are quickly removed in time before being seen ..

One of my friends was questioned by a couple of CASA guys as they checked the aeroplane after seeing a video on YouTube. No problems when told the camera was internal and nil evidence of an external installation. It seems to me that they have a firm policy on external installations per that AC 23-1 (issued some time ago, so not a draft).

[alouis]

To be honest, its an entirely new thing to me. My concern is will it affect the weight and balancing sys of the Aircraft? I believe it will not, whatever.

 

Please sent me the CASA GO PRO draft.

 

 

[gandalph]

Some very interesting information in the link below. I would be VERY cautious about mounting a camera anywhere in the airstream that might affect airflow over control surfaces Some people seem to stick the cameras anywhere, giving more consideration to the shot that to the possible effect on the flying qualities of the aircraft. One poster in the link below noted an eight knot increase in his plane's stall speed when he fitted a camera to his wing!

 

For sensible external placement have a look at the FlightChops videos on You-Tube.

 

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=888927&highlight=camera

 

 

[facthunter]

Of course you could fit them in the wrong place but compared to the venturi's, wind driven generators, pitot heads rear vision mirrors, Ram air turbines Geophysical mapping devices, Camera's, Flying with doors off a go pro or two is small bickies in the big scheme of things. (Not to mention fixed undercarriages, engine mufflers, radiators, struts and junk hanging off many planes in the design). Nev

 

 

[gandalph]

Of course you could fit them in the wrong place but compared to the venturi's, wind driven generators, pitot heads rear vision mirrors, Ram air turbines Geophysical mapping devices, Camera's, Flying with doors off a go pro or two is small bickies in the big scheme of things. (Not to mention fixed undercarriages, engine mufflers, radiators, struts and junk hanging off many planes in the design). Nev

True Nev, but all of those external excrescences you mentioned would (or should) have been fitted when the aircraft was being built and their effects taken into account when the plane was in the test flight phase. Fitting extra bits & pieces out in the airstream means that the pilot becomes a test pilot. Maybe the worst thing that happens is that a small change to the POH might be needed, or maybe not.

The problem is that no one knows what effect the extras might have until the next flight after fitting them. There have been a few cases where people have fitted, for example, vortex generators because "they are supposed to work", and found that their plane behaved differently. Not all of them were pleasantly surprised.

 

Lots of people fit Go Pro's with no apparent ill effects. It's a suck it and see sort of exercise, but if it were me I would be very tentative flying until I had checked out the plane's performance at all edges of the flight envelope.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I think the pilot in the VANS article mentioned above was really pushing the envelope when mounting a camera on the wing near the leading edge. Mount away from the wing please. On the wheel spat ? Great.

 

 

[Yenn]

I don't know what a go pro weighs, but with a heavy mounting on a light plane with a long distance from centre of mass to the camera I would personally check the W & B.

 

Sticking it out on a wing tip could also lead to excess drag on one side.

 

Just be careful and think it out.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

weighs about 3 feathers, no effect.

 

 

[red750]

cscotthendry produces some great videos. He may be able to give a few tips. Also check out the CASA Out-n-Back video series. They use numerous cameras mounted outside and inside the aircraft.

[cscotthendry]

I obtained approval from the manufacturer for the type and position of my GoPro mounts. I used the surfboard mounts rather than the standard GoPro mounts as they have a larger adhesive area. I usually have one camera mounted on one of the stick on mounts under the wing, and one mounted on a strap on mount on the opposite strut. I have never experienced any interference with the control surfaces or the aerodynamics of the airplane (no change in stall speed, or drag imbalance). That said, I would never mount anything on the top of the wing because of the disturbance to the lifting airflow.

 

If you fly a GA aircraft, I would definitely advise going through the CASA approval process to mount external cameras and not post any video online unless you have done that.

 

RA Aus has a (soft) policy of actually encouraging us to have cameras as it might help investigators in case of accident. I'm not sure if it is in black and white, but I have read references to it in Sport Pilot. Also, if you fly an LSA, anything you do to the aircraft by way of modifications requires approval. So be careful about that.

 

Finally, FWIW, don't be stupid about flying videos. Don't post footage of yourself deliberately breaking rules or doing dangerous flying. It WILL get you into trouble and it will bring attention to the rest of us. There's lots of legal stuff to video and we are privileged to see the world the way few others get to see it.

 

Post your videos, I love to watch them all.

 

 

[facthunter]

Gandalph, Vortex generators are a " major"player in how the airflow behaves. The order of potential effect of a minor thing like a go pro camera is not really comparable.

 

OK.. generally all things should be verified as to their potential effect with an aeroplane. One of my sons wears one (go pro camera) when he races his motorbike. It's not even noticeable on his helmet. A wingtip clearance light lens broken would make more difference... Casa could cover this with a simplelist of limits and rules suggested. It should not be a big deal... As I've said previously.... These things are helpful for the individual pilot and all of us potentially, to analyse events, not cause them. Nev